Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Welcome to the Love Justice Podcast where we hear from different voices who are joining us in the fight against modern day slavery. Please welcome today's guest, Spencer Patton.
[00:00:14] Speaker B: Welcome to the Love justice podcast. We're excited to welcome Spencer Patton, a successful entrepreneur and founder of Patton Logistics, a rapidly growing company based in Nashville, Tennessee. With a strong focus on scalability and impact, Spencer has built his business by combining strategic vision with innovative practices, making him a leader in the logistics industry. Beyond his entrepreneurial success, Spencer is passionate about exploring how emerging technologies like cryptocurrency can shape the future of both business and philanthropy. Spencer, welcome to the Love justice podcast.
[00:00:49] Speaker A: Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
[00:00:51] Speaker C: I don't know if you know Spencer, you may know, but Thomas Summers connected us. Originally.
He introduced me to Danielle and then Danielle and he, I think talked and you were doing the podcast and they thought, well, this is a guy that might be interesting. I don't know how interesting it was, but nonetheless, I loved being on the podcast with you. So that was Anna. That was actually our introduction. I don't know if you have a different take on it, but that's what I understand.
[00:01:19] Speaker A: I really appreciate Thomas. There are some people who are on this earth with a gifting of being super connectors and is a gift that I don't have. But Jason, if I could have one gift that I don't, I would love to have that super connector ability. Because it's like you meet them and they're like, you should meet so and so and so and so and they connect and it's amazing how their network brings people like you and I together.
[00:01:44] Speaker C: You're exactly right. And he, it was funny. I was with him at the coffee house on Second and Bridge when the words came out of his mouth. You know, you should really meet Spencer, like, and he gave me like four reasons why. And I was like, I would love to meet him. That sounds great. So I'm very thankful for it, Thankful for growing friendship with you, that we get to be here in Middle Tennessee together and that we get to see things like this type of cause that we're involved with as well as emerging tech and all the things you do help people do, things with significance and with meaning.
[00:02:20] Speaker A: I'm excited to talk about it and go through it and I think we just have to surround ourselves with more.
[00:02:26] Speaker C: Super connectors, more people like Thomas. That's right. So talk to us, Spencer, tell us, because for our listeners, Hannah did an amazing job giving that introduction. But tell us who is Spencer Patton.
[00:02:39] Speaker A: Well, born and raised in Tennessee, I've been an entrepreneur from the get go. I love the opportunity to be able to feed into our economy with creativity, be a disruptor and, and do things differently. And that really has been my story from the get go. So my wife, Carly, we got married really young. We had kids really young. I've got four kids, 13, 12, 10 and five. The oldest, three are girls and the little one is a little boy.
And really my story has been trying to make the biggest kingdom impact that I can. I really believe that life is not about dying with the most money. My favorite book to read is Ecclesiastes. And I think it's a really helpful narrative for people like me that need to keep ambition and aspiration in check and recognize that there are higher callings that we get the opportunity to pursue. And I think entrepreneurship uniquely unlocks that. And so I think in trying to answer the question of who I am in that way, that's what I hope people will look and see. I kind of like to joke with people, you know, what might be an epitaph at the end on a tombstone, and I think frequently wrong but never in doubt is a really good one for me. There is, I think that's a key to entrepreneurship, is just pushing ahead. Are definitely going to fail, but you're going to be confident while you fail.
[00:04:16] Speaker C: I love it. I love it. It's like people say how people describe Thomas Edison, right. That he, he didn't fail 2,000 times at discovering the light bulb. He actually invented 1999 ways not to make a light bulb. Right. So I love it. I love it. That's the spirit of entrepreneurialism for sure.
[00:04:35] Speaker A: That's exactly right.
[00:04:38] Speaker B: All right. I was just going to say I think it's fun to see that connection, that entrepreneurial pro spirit with the mission and the core values of Love justice. Because one of our values is fail facet often with that idea of like, the quicker that we can fail, the quicker we're going to find that breakthrough solution. So it's fun to see already just the parallels between Spencer's experience and some of the values that we have at Love justice, which is fun.
[00:05:06] Speaker C: I agree, I agree. And you even commented when we were together on your podcast, Spencer, about just my title being that we would have an advancement person. Right. The idea that Love justice wants to advance. Right. And I think that's beautiful. So what compels you? Like, you've done some amazing things. Whether it's been logistics or emerging technologies, the philanthropy you're involved with. With the foundation, like different things that you've been a part of. What compels you, what motivates you, what drives you? And it's. And it's kind of an extension and expansion on the answer you said a while ago. Because it's about your identity, it's about your purpose. Right, But. But what compels you, what motivates you and drives you to do what you do?
[00:05:49] Speaker A: I think stewardship is at the core. So all of us are given some type of domain to steward, and a lot of it depends upon our giftings. And we just were talking about Thomas, and his gifting, in part, is to steward his ability to be a connector. And he does a great job in doing that. But there's also a way to put that gifting under a cover and really fail in being a steward of the gifts that you're given. And so, from my perspective, entrepreneurship allows me to unlock what I feel like my gifting center around, which is an ability to serve in a way that is different than how a market has been served historically.
And I think the journey for me in that is that I believe entrepreneurship begins with understanding the pain of your customer better than anybody else understands it. And you do that a lot by walking in their shoes. And so, for me, in the logistics world, I drove a FedEx truck for two years, and I really understood what it was like to deliver a box to somebody's door and to run from their dogs. And by the way, the big dogs are not the ones to be afraid of.
They get up on you, and I tell you they will bite your ankle, and you will not forget that the little dogs are really the ones to fear. But in any case, the motivation is to be a steward of the moment. And there are seasons where there's a wilderness experience, and you're kind of like, lord, why in the world am I out here wandering through the desert and there's something to learn and gather? And then other times, you know, you got the wind in your sails, and you have to be a steward of that moment. And so entrepreneurship has given me the ability to pivot between those moments and opportunities to go after it when it's time to go after it and to play more defense when it's time to play defense.
[00:07:51] Speaker B: There are going to be so many good nuggets in this episode. I think I'm already, like, just soaking it all in. Spencer, you've got just a wealth of knowledge, I think. And what's. What I love about the audience here is that it might be a mix of, you know, people in the NGO space, people in the business space. And what I love about entrepreneurship is that it's not confined to a specific sector. It can be applied across all sectors. And so you being very successful at what you do. I'm curious, what are three mindsets or practices that you would avoid in order to continue in your success, maybe that you've learned from your experience so far?
[00:08:41] Speaker A: I think it's a great question. The first thing that I'd say is the mindset of people considering entrepreneurship is similar to those that are considering having children. There is never a great, you know, time. There's never a great time to have children. There's never that moment where it's like, you know, what I want to do is just blow up the next nine months of my life and sleep. Financial, relational, my body. I mean, all of it. I just am going to do that now. It's the same in entrepreneurship. A lot of people fall into a habit of ready, aim, aim, aim, aim, and fire never arrives. And it's just they aim their whole life and there's always a reason to say no. So there is a leap of faith that every new entrepreneur have to take. And you will never be properly equipped informationally to make that leap of faith with 100% certainty. And that's why a lot of people never will make that leap. But if you expect it going into it, of expecting to have a little bit of imposter syndrome, where I'm going to make this step, but what happens if people really find out that I don't know what I'm doing and I don't have the money that I think I should have, and I don't really have as much experience as other people in the space. We all have to wrestle with that imposter syndrome. I still have to wrestle with that even today in all sorts of new things that I try to do. So I think the first aspect is to be ready to take that leap of faith when it is time. And importantly, it's not saying, go be reckless. Right? There's a clear distinction. There's work that has to be done, but when that has concluded, you have to be ready to move forward.
Second thing is a scarcity mindset. A lot of people go through life believing that the pie of a resource is finite, meaning that if you get something, Hannah, I get less. But that's not the way kingdom economics actually works. And it's so upside down and sometimes you're so frustrated by it, and sometimes you love the Lord for it. And you kind of go in between the two because it's this natural tension of how much belief it takes to believe that God is not a God of scarcity. And entrepreneurship, I think really highlights that in that a lot of people that go in can find reasons due to scarcity of resources to say no.
Instead, what I've found through entrepreneurship is that there are serendipitous moments where you are taking the next right step and you meet somebody new or someone decides to mentor you and show you grace beyond what you deserve to have. But there is that moment where you could have never predicted it. It wasn't in the business plan, but it happens. And so going forward with some degree of faith in the abundance of how you're going to serve is an aspect that every entrepreneur has to at some point go towards. And sometimes they're drugged towards it and sometimes you willingly move towards it. But in any case, that's another mindset that I'd stay away from is that scarcity mindset. And I think the third thing is around failure. Failure is certainly going to happen in entrepreneurship and the best lesson around failure is to fail quickly. The worst failures that have ever happened in my career, and I have had plenty of them entrepreneurially, are the ones that take extensive time to fail. Usually as they take extensive time, they take extensive money, they take relationships with them. If you're going to fail, fail quickly. Which doesn't mean quit and give up at the first opportunity, but it also doesn't mean to make your identity equal to your entrepreneurial effort at that time. Those things are different and if you align those things too closely, then you will find yourself unable to say, tried, it didn't work.
[00:13:16] Speaker B: Moving on, man, come on, you're pumping me up, Spencer. And like, I think I want to take just a second. This is a little bit of an off scripted question, but I see so many parallels with your business perspective and gospel principles and biblical principles. Have you like, what's your story of faith? Maybe in a, in a short high level version, like has that always been a part of your story? Is that something you've come into? Like you just have such a confidence when you talk about that aspect of who you are that it just has me drawn into it and wanting to know more.
[00:13:59] Speaker A: Yeah, I really appreciate that. And the faith story for me is been one that started when I was little, but has really kind of taken two pathways. So for much of my life, the overwhelming majority, 80% of it, I've felt as though that the Lord's hand is visible when you look in hindsight, and I think a lot of us share lives that way, is that we see doors that were closed and were opened, things that happened that are uniquely of the Lord that you can see it looking back. But for me, I did not have the marrying of any scriptural knowledge or any real involvement in small groups community. It was just this knowing that I had that I was very faith minded, believed in the Lord and knew that there was something happening in my life, but I couldn't really marry it up with anything beyond that. So kind of it was the soft, mushy food rather than the actual meat.
And really about five years ago in my life, something radically changed in my passion for learning about scripture. And that ignited in me an entirely different confidence. Maybe the confidence that you speak to that says here is actually the text that points to the things that I have felt throughout my life, but not been able to really put a finger on.
And once it really started to click for me, it changed my whole world. And I'll tell you the thing that made that click. John Maxwell writes a leadership Bible. So it's a full Bible that has leadership lessons all throughout. And it rearranged the context of seeing every significant figure biblically through a lens of a leader both negative and positive changed my whole world.
[00:16:14] Speaker C: I love that. I love that. And I love the, the dynamic of how I've had someone say to me before that it's like the spirit, even when we don't realize it is humming a tune.
And often we begin to move to that tune. But when we really lean into the word, into the scripture, we start getting the words to that tune, like the words to that song. And we start realizing, you know, more and more, oh, this is what this is that song, right? Like it, like you said. And then you're singing it with more like how you know, where you're just whistling a tune, but then you sing it in the shower, right? With everything when you know the words and the confidence that comes with that. And I love the dynamic of how as you saw the words to what you had already been sensing, resonating with feeling and it, and it even gave you a greater confidence. I love that. And that's a great question, Hannah. I love that.
[00:17:13] Speaker B: Well, that likes, you know, of course you run a successful company and you know, it's very successful even beyond what I even know, to be honest with you, Spencer, but just to think like how cool that you are in that space because God has given you the pathways to that. And God is in that space. Like, I love thinking about that idea.
[00:17:34] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think that's a really important thing, because what people should take away is, in my business, we deliver cardboard boxes to people's doorsteps. Right. We're in coordination with FedEx. And that's a lot of how FedEx's network works, is that contractors like me deliver the boxes. So importantly, there is nothing spiritual about taking a cardboard box from a warehouse to someone's front door every day. I don't wake up with a mission to say, oh, man, this is what I am most passionate about and what I was put on this earth to do. But in that work, there are opportunities to create jobs, to bless people, to impact communities, and that is so much more. What entrepreneurship can unlock in people is that it's rarely that you are called to do one specific thing. And. And maybe it's true for. For some people, but in the overwhelming majority, it's reflecting it in the work that you do and the way that you do the work you.
[00:18:40] Speaker C: Are you familiar with Mike Beckham, Spencer?
[00:18:45] Speaker A: No.
[00:18:46] Speaker C: So he's CEO of Simple Modern.
Simple Modern.
You've probably delivered some Simple Modern products.
[00:18:55] Speaker A: I know the brand very well now. Yeah, Simple Modern, I know that brand. Yes.
[00:18:58] Speaker C: They sell in Target and all that. So he's CEO of Simple Modern. Simple Modern is a corporate partner and supporter of Love, justice, and. And we'll have Mike on the podcast actually, soon. I can't remember how soon that is, but it's an upcoming episode, if I remember correctly. But. But Mike is amazing. And when you walk in their offices, Spencer, you. You walk in, and the wall, huge back wall of all their kind of open space, it just says, we exist to give generously.
And that's it. Like, that's their purpose statement as a company. And that's what. That's what you're saying. Like, it's really. That's the power of. I know it's this logistics company or it's this, you know, innovation, technology or decentralized finance or all these different things we could do as a company people can do in business. But it has purpose, like you said, because of the way it affects people and allows you to have meaning and significance and live in community and all of those things. I love it. I love it. And I'm so thankful for how you do it.
[00:20:07] Speaker B: Of faith and abundance. Like, I just. I kind of just get goosebumps and have the faith to believe that there's someone listening to this who's either in college, in business Thinking about how can I do like something what Spencer is doing, you know, create a successful business, but one that's based on stewardship, like you mentioned, and connecting not just the business to the business, but the stewardship connected to the business or someone who is in that season where maybe they have a successful company and they're looking for something more like going back to ecclesiastes, like not feeling quite fully fulfilled or satisfied and are looking for like, man, what does that look like for me? And then to hear you talk about it and to be inspired by it, I just like, who knows what the Lord is going to do through this conversation? And so I just am speaking out.
Here's a little bit. Spencer, one thing that we've been talking about a lot at Love justice the last several years is scaling and scaling impact, which I feel like you probably have a lot of wisdom and insight into just what does it look like to be successful in both scalability as well as impact.
[00:21:22] Speaker A: So the key lesson on scaling is that you want to plan for the business that you want to be, not for the business that you are today.
And this is another leap of faith moment that has to happen, and this is one that I failed on repeatedly as my business scaled, is that I would look at the profit and loss statement of my business and say, I cannot afford the payroll to be able to hire this individual. I'm sitting here drowning in a certain task or a series of tasks, but I don't have the resources to be able to go and hire this person. So I've got to work harder to create those resources, meanwhile getting further behind. And then I will ultimately hire them. And then by the way, it takes them a while to get up to speed. And by the time they're up to speed, were drowning again. And I went through that cycle a number of times until it finally hit me to say, Spencer, you've got to take some risk in hiring someone while knowing that six months down the road, if I can afford just a little bit of Runway of that payroll, it will free up my time to be able to create value and grow the company to where we will be able to develop the resources to be able to sustainably have that person on board. So there is an element of scale where you've got to match up the hiring that you're doing or whatever growth you need with the business that you plan to be. And if you constantly wait to the resources to be present today, it's going to handicap you along the way.
[00:23:12] Speaker C: Yeah, it's so good. It's so good. And I think that principle is applicable whether you're in the business world, the for profit world, or you're in the nonprofit world. And I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.
We're a nonprofit that cares deeply about scaling well and having significant impact, about being lean and having great impact on the dollar.
And we're learning. Right? I mean, just like any entrepreneur. And whether you're in again for profit or nonprofit, you stumble your way typically toward that. But you have to be willing to make those stumbles and take those steps. You know, as you think about those principles that you just articulated, like how do you, how do you apply those, how would you challenge nonprofits to even think in that way? Like to understand like you've got to think like what you just described in order to scale and in order to have the impact that you hope for.
[00:24:12] Speaker A: Yeah, I give a couple things to nonprofits specifically is one, having a board for a non profit is a really vital step and it doesn't have to be super sophisticated, but on that board there has to be at least one person with real business experience. Nonprofits, like we talked about earlier in our conversation about gifting, they oftentimes have hearts that know no end and they are there to serve and they're mission minded and you just want to pick them up and hug them and squeeze them and thank them. But often they are broke with a capital B and they will remain broke and doing the types of things that are not going to lead to prosperity for their mission and their mission will fail because they run out of resources.
Those types of principles related to business are not always instinctual for every person. You don't come equipped with just how you can run your nonprofit with some business principles to it. So first, having that board, having that mentor that can really come alongside you and teach you and hold you accountable to those principles is really a valid and important aspect of a nonprofit. And then the second thing is, we talked earlier about the scarcity mindset. Nonprofits I think are most commonly living in a world of scarcity. And it's known that nonprofits kind of live in a place where financial resources are tough to come by and it's hand to mouth and there are seasons where it is very scary. And so as a result, a lot of nonprofit leaders are tempted and often do play it very close to the vest and saying, I can't take any risk, I can't do these things. And those mindsets are often self perpetuating. So coming up with a model in A nonprofit world that includes some element of sustainability to it is really important. There are ways that nonprofits can generate some money outside of pure donor revenue. And every nonprofit is a little bit different, but there are scrappy ways to be able to have some foundational support. And maybe it's 20% of the annual budget, maybe it's 5% of the annual budget. Whatever it is, something that gives some support to the mission is another important aspect that I would speak to in scaling a nonprofit.
[00:26:53] Speaker C: I love that. And I just commenting on both of those real quick. Like one, one of my friends in Orlando, his name's Kristin Beston, he was CEO for Vermeer, one of the Vermeer companies, if you know who I'm talking about. The inner. The equipment company. Right. And he was. Whatever the southeastern one was. He was CEO there. And now he's retired. But he, he now in retirement, gives himself to nonprofits as that mentor to teach them about business, to teach them those principles, to teach them scale. And I love, I love that you said that, because what he's doing, there's one particular group in Africa, in particular in middle Africa, that he has had crazy impact on, and they're training the future business leaders of that country. Now that nonprofit is under the mentorship that's being multiplied there, and that's powerful. And I love that you said that. And know. And then, and then even the idea of, of that scarcity piece, like, if it inspires any of the other nonprofits listening, like, we're working on revenue generation concepts. We recognize monthly base, right. Recurring some functional endowment concepts and how important that is. Like, even in, even so that we can speak some of our love language. Spencer. Even the idea of, like, if someone gives you Bitcoin, right? Like, don't sell all of it, right? Like, hold some of it as an endowment. Like, have a mindset that says, I don't have to spend all of this. I need to also prepare for the future ahead. So, yeah, I love all of that and I hope it's encouraging and inspiring to any of the nonprofit leaders that are listening.
[00:28:32] Speaker A: Yeah. One other trap I see some nonprofits will fall into is they fear that if they do have any element of financial stability, that it will make the case for reaching out to donors weaker because they'll say, oh, well, if I, if I'm some degree of financially stable, then they're going to get called upon by other ministries that are less financially stable and I will miss out on those dollars. And I would so urge the rejection of all of that line of thinking.
[00:29:02] Speaker C: Because it's not true.
[00:29:04] Speaker A: Yeah, it's not true. And instead there's a compelling ask that you can sit across from future donors to say, I take your donations so seriously that I want to make sure that your dollar is making a generational impact. And I'm going to stretch that across decades. And I do so by having an eye towards financial stability in X, Y and Z ways. And that's a more powerful narrative than we are so out of money that if you don't give today, I can't make payroll in two weeks.
[00:29:40] Speaker C: Yes, you're exactly right. Exactly right. I love it.
[00:29:44] Speaker B: Jason, I feel like this is the perfect segue to start talking about bitcoin and cryptocurrency if you want to tee us up there.
[00:29:52] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I will. I mean we both have played in that realm, you much more than I have, Spencer. But.
And you know, in my world, my role in it, you know, if you remember from the podcast, ended up being the storytelling side of it and, and you've had a different role in it. But I mean, we accept bitcoin and crypto, right? Like we have a partnership right now with endowment, with GivingBlock, where we can receive through those donor advised funds through the concepts and the tools that they provide.
You know, multiple types of cryptocurrency. Like why should nonprofits be paying attention to decentralized finance and help them understand why it actually is a viable asset? Right? Because that's the pushback I get constantly when I challenge other nonprofit leaders is they still fear that it's a viable asset. They still fear what it's really going to be used for. And not just even the crypto, but I push the technology behind it to let them know there's so many use cases that are going to innovate well if we lean into this like so talk about why nonprofits should be paying attention to defi and how it's really even a viable and should be a viable part of their strategy going forward.
[00:31:16] Speaker A: Usually where I start with people on cryptocurrency is to give an example or two of a use case that will help build the founding blocks of why it should be a part of, of any asset allocation. So one use case I used to run a business that we purchased product overseas, we purchased from China and have it shipped here to the United States. So I would go in many years ago to my local SunTrust bank branch and as a young man at the time, I'd asked to send a six figure wire to China internationally And the teller behind the counter would say, which terrorism organization are we funding today? Right. They would reject any legitimacy behind me coming this international wire. They'd say it's going to take seven to 15 business days, and if our compliance department flags it, it'll take as long as it takes. That had a huge business impact upon me because I needed to purchase product and I didn't need the bank questioning what I was doing with the money, where it was going, and had the ability to interfere in ways that I had no control over. By the way, you can only send wire transfers Monday through Friday from about 9am in the morning to 3:30 in the afternoo, which is also an inconceivable thing in America that we can't move money on the weekends or outside of normal business hours. Bitcoin is an alternative to that. Bitcoin is an instrument of wealth transfer where I can send money to either of you 24 7, 365, and there is no bank or regulatory body that will oversee the transaction between you and I. And it takes 10 minutes or less.
That's a use case that is super practical and should bring a light bulb to say, oh, this is a lot better than how we currently have to move money, especially in meaningful quantities. There's another use case related to moving money when your government or regulatory body is potentially adversarial to you moving that money. So we think internationally, governments by rule will dilute or inflate currencies stealing from their citizenry. And we have seen this time and time and time again. You get paid wages in your local currency, and within weeks your wages that you have earned have been diluted to a fraction of what it was just worth a couple weeks ago. And the government doesn't allow you to move that money out, and so you're prisoner to that administration.
Instead, if you're paid in a bitcoin currency, you can always convert. You can sell your bitcoin into a local currency and participate in the economy if you want to, but it gives you freedom to where the government has no say or authority over what you do with your money.
There are pros and cons to that. Clearly, some aspect of cryptocurrency can be used for malicious ends, and it has done so every day. In the Same way, the $100 bill and US currency is used for malicious ends every single day. So there are pros and cons to cryptocurrency in general. But maybe the place where I'd start there, Jason, is just given a couple Use cases for people to say, okay, it can serve a role as a hedge, it can serve a role as a convenience. And there's about 15 other roles that it could serve. But maybe that'll bring a little bit of a light bulb on.
[00:35:06] Speaker C: I think that's great. And I was talking to one gentleman in Ohio last week who's working with some nonprofits on payment solutions and, and in the, in the defi space, in the blockchain space and, you know, leverage, whether it's leveraging Bitcoin through the Lightning Network, or whether it's leveraging, you know, some of the L2s and L3s of Ethereum, which for our listeners, these are just different, basically layers that can be built upon certain distributed networks of computers so that transactions can occur more easily. And like it's, you know, whatever that solution is, there are so many ways that nonprofits could be integrating this and then not only that, like the idea of then helping educate people who haven't ever been connected to the global economy, who may not have any access to a bank or credit, who can't, can't take the risks that this very. The subject of this podcast is about, right? Because they don't have access to money that could allow them to take the risks that they potentially need to take to start a business that could scale and thrive. Right? This, these are the types of things that defi is empowering and it really is something that is a game changer. If you begin to lean into it and you quit being scared of it and you understand why it could be meaningful and useful and, and, and you've done that. I mean, you're even doing it on a business level and probably in challenging people to do it on personal and generosity levels as well. But, you know, like, any other thoughts just on, like, how, how people.
What's a simple way right now? If a nonprofit's hearing this and they're going, okay, I hear you. Like, what's that? What's that first step that you would say to them? Hey, take. At least take this step. Like, take this step. Leaning into crypto, leaning into defi.
[00:37:08] Speaker A: It always begins with education. So education is the best antidote to fear in that if you're going to say no to something, I just want you to be really educated about why it's no. And if you say yes to something, I really want it to be an educated yes. So that way you clearly define why this fits as part of your mission. Some nonprofits have deep international ties and really would benefit from the ability to rescue and serve in ways that using a traditional banking system might not always behoove you. Some nonprofits, that's just not a concern at all. The ability to be able to accept donations of cryptocurrency is the same as why most nonprofits are willing to accept stock donations. A lot of wealthy individuals will have a stock that has appreciated from $100 a share to $500 a share. If that wealthy individual sells that stock, they're going to have to pay taxes on that gain, which is going to obviously materially reduce the amount of money that they have to give post tax. But instead, by giving the stock to a charity, then you get to give the full stock value, and the charity, the nonprofit, gets to have enormous after tax benefits because they don't pay tax.
And so it gives so much more velocity to the donation. So as cryptocurrency becomes more a part of people's portfolio, then there's going to be an appetite for being willing to accept those donations to get more out of a dollar and stretch it from a tax side.
Jason, maybe with your permission, I'll give one other piece. This will take kind of four or five minutes to go through, but I think it'll be really a nice tie through some of the sustainability that we talked about earlier. So can I take you down a rabbit hole real quick? Yeah, please. Not take more than five.
[00:39:08] Speaker C: I think it's great.
[00:39:10] Speaker A: So one of the ways that the bitcoin world operates is that we have to have a verification of a transfer between you and I. So there are dedicated computers that are called miners. All right? They're not mining anything in the ground, but they are computers that are authenticating that you and I had a transaction between us. We're actually very used to this. When you think about a Visa card, when I swipe a Visa card at a gas station, there is a bank of computers that authenticate that that card is legitimate. The chip on the inside is legitimate, the merchant is legitimate, I'm legitimate. And Visa takes a little scrape of that transaction, usually around 2%. And that's how Visa makes their money. They are authenticating that transaction. In the bitcoin world, it works in a very similar way, except rather than Visa owning all the authentication servers, you and I can actually purchase specialized computers that all they do is authenticate transactions on the bitcoin network. And in the same way, every transaction we authenticate, we receive a little bit of bitcoin as a reward for that authentication. So one way that I've been donating to nonprofits is I actually am purchasing these computers and I donate the computer to the nonprofit. Now, a lot of times I will run the equipment rather than asking the nonprofit to run the equipment. But what that does is that every day that that computer equipment runs, it throws off a little bit of bitcoin to the nonprofit every single day.
[00:41:04] Speaker B: Interesting.
[00:41:05] Speaker A: That machine costs anywhere from $1,000 to $15,000. The ones that are more expensive have a better computer system on the inside that allows them to authenticate more transactions. And the ones that are cheaper are generally older and throw off less money, less bitcoin on a daily basis. So this is another aspect when nonprofits come and say, well, Spencer, there's literally no possible way for me to create sustainability in my model. I don't have anything to sell, I don't have anything to do. There's nothing that I can create. I say, well, let me blow your mind with an educational class on some bitcoin, which all that to say is that if a nonprofit was to take some percentage of a donation and acquire some equipment, some computer equipment, then through that they can actually take that allocation of money and it will generate a return on investment that is larger than what they invested in purchasing that computer. So that's five minutes of uninterrupted talking, which I know is not ideal in most podcast settings, but it's just an aspect of how I want to change people's mindset as they think about cryptocurrency and the financial innovation that's available.
[00:42:23] Speaker C: No, I love it.
That is a rabbit hole that was well worth going down. And the reason is because people need to wake up to the reality that there are revenue generating concepts and DeFi in particular, and bitcoin in particular provides one of the best ones. And I think what's silly to me, and this is where I kind of have to. I just keep my mouth shut whenever I get pushback from other nonprofit leaders. I like, in other words, you can't, you can't argue them into this. They have to begin to discover it themselves. And so I do my best to educate, like you said, or to say, hey, have you thought about this? And then I just kind of. You at some point when they just keep pushing back, you say, well, you know what? I'll. We'll talk about this later. Like, you'll, maybe you'll think about it and we'll come back. But I look at it and I think even the idea of creating our own non profit ecosystems, right, like even that could become a sustainability concept. Where a group of nonprofits could say, we all focus on the same thing. Let's create our own defi ecosystem. And everyone gives into this. We all benefit from it. Right. Like even that idea. So like, it's mining, it's having a node. If it's not bitcoin on another blockchain network, it's. There's multiple ways to lean in to this. And it's not just throwing your money in a savings account that doesn't do anything but leverage the ways you can grow your money. Like how money can make money. Right. And most nonprofit leaders don't think like that.
[00:44:02] Speaker B: Before we hop down here, I confessed. Let's put it that way, I confessed. I know very little about this space, but one of the things that I'm thinking through right now, real time, is it's almost like this is where the business world seems to be heading to some extent. Right. And so it's like either you join or you don't. And if you don't, then you're kind of. You're a step behind or it can feel archaic. Right.
And something that we talked about or we often talk about at Love Justice. Jason, you know, this is what does it look like to be kingdom class? And that idea of being kingdom class came out of a discussion where we were at the cusp of a lot of our growth probably five years ago. We were in two or three countries and we had a lot of opportunity to grow. We had expanded to over 25. Now we're in about 18, 20. And that was pretty significant for us in a short amount of time. And so we were talking about how do the world class organizations do it? How do the world class businesses do it? And there is something to be said about like, you know, the companies that are very successful making a lot of money, what are they doing and how does it work? Because we want to be able to apply some of those principles and not just it be about the bottom line of money, but the bottom line of impact of like changing people's lives. And so that's what I'm kind of personally taking away from this conversation of why not, especially if that's where it seems to be going.
And then paired with your advice, Spencer, of just educating yourself, at least making an educated guess or not an educated guess, but an educated decision of what this looks like for your organization. This is so fascinating.
[00:45:50] Speaker A: Well, it's fun to get to see the light come on in somebody's eyes of saying, okay, I can see how this could fill a little bit of A role. And all that we're hoping to do is spark a little curiosity through it. And I think, Hannah, you give voice to that in a great way of taking away some of the fear around not knowing. Because I promise you, Hannah, 98% of people listening probably occupy exactly your seat of saying, I don't know what this is. I'm intimidated by it. It's something that is beyond what I feel like I could learn without embarrassing myself. And how I'd specifically speak to that is every single one of us started in that space. I still live in that space. For a meaningful part of the cryptocurrency world, you could ask me a question, Hannah or Jason, about certain aspects of cryptocurrency that I would know zero about. So it is totally okay to come to the table from a posture of humility, of saying, I don't know what I am doing here. But what's fun about many people in cryptocurrency and bitcoin is that they love to teach. It's one through line that I've seen through people that have a passion for this space because it is intimidating. But we all had to walk that road quite recently, so we know what it feels like to sit in that seat.
[00:47:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:47:18] Speaker C: Yeah, you're so right. And I think an important thing and just even in the context of the subject of this podcast podcast, all entrepreneurialism and all technology advances are that way. We all feel that way in the middle of entrepreneurialism. We all feel that way even in the turn of the night of the 1800s to the 1900s. We weren't talking about computer systems, but all of the technology advances. Then you felt intimidated. You were like, what is this? How is that going to catch on? Why are people going to use that? We saw the same thing in the turn from the 1900s to the 2000 2000s. And you'll laugh at this, Spencer. But my son had some. My oldest 23 year old, he wanted to. He asked if we would host some of his friends recently.
You know, he's graduated from college and all that and does his own thing. But we hosted him and some of his friends the other night just to get together for his birthday party. And it was so funny. We sat down, one of them ended up asking me. There were eight of them around the table. And they said, well, what do you do? And so Caleb wanted me to tell him. My oldest wanted me to tell him what I've done in the past, what I do now. Told him about love, justice, and then blockchain Tech came up and this is what made me chuckle. You'll laugh at this. Of all the guys around the table and they are all smart guys, like, they all are in unique roles, doing unique things, really smart young men. And every one of them admitted, I really don't understand this, but I'm trying to figure it out. And the conversation we had, I like what you did a while ago. I just gave them simple use cases and I think to help people who are listening understand Visa, right? The thing that all of us use every day, right? Every one of us who. Well, let me rephrase that. If you're not in a bank, if you're in a bankless society or a non credit society, you are not using it. So if you're listening and you hear it, I apologize. But if you're in a banked society, in a society that has access to credit, you use Visa every day, right? And what did they just announce yesterday? That they're providing a tokenized asset platform to financial institutions to experiment in this realm.
If that's not adoption, Right? Which again, I'm not saying we can have it. We don't need to go down and have a conversation because I know we probably have a kindred opinion on CBDCs and all of that, like what even all that stuff is, but still, the fact that they're even providing that tool is an indication, Hannah, to affirm what you said, businesses are paying attention to this. And in that way, governments are banking the stability of their economies on Bitcoin. Like, there are multiple governments we could name that are doing that now. Major companies are hedging their bets on stability based on Bitcoin. Like, I mean, Saylor keeps buying it every day, right? Like, you look at all of these things that are happening and you go, okay, we should be paying attention to this. This is a tsunami that's coming. And how do we help nonprofits to wake up to it?
[00:50:36] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Which speaking of, Spencer, let's say that you're talking to a group of fundraisers or development team. What suggestions or tips do you have for those guys as they are engaging with potential donors in terms of how they can give in this way?
[00:50:53] Speaker A: I think I'd say a couple things. First, you've got to be able to read the room. And there are some rooms where bringing up cryptocurrency and bitcoin will do immense damage to your credibility. That is still a part of bitcoin in this world, that it is the Wild West. So there is a season and a place to use that. And there's a season to let that go and let somebody else advocate and tilt at windmills and not convince them to change anything. What I hope people will be able to take from it is to have a heart posture of innovation and a heart posture of look at the ways that we are trying to make your dollar have generational impacts far beyond what you could do with any other way that you're going to spend this money. And here are ways that we are stretching the paradigms of what you commonly associate with nonprofits in order to find ways to be the best steward of what you're giving me. And that type of message is going to resonate well with those that are in the business world, that are used to hearing business pitches and knowing that when they hear a nonprofit pitch, it's going to sound different, it's going to be different, but it shouldn't have to be an inferior pitch. And they often are, and that's the truth. But it doesn't have to be that way. And the more that you can come across in the position of a non profit, but with the sophistication and the savvy of someone that can speak the language of business, it's a really powerful combination that I've seen nonprofits do well in learning to be bilingual between nonprofit.
[00:52:47] Speaker B: And for profit, which connects again to that principle of stewardship of like, you were entrusted with one coin and what did you do with it and what did you do? You know, the parable of the coins. And just thinking about there's almost two aspects to that, or at least for the first time, I'm kind of maybe in my naivety or youngness and connecting, like there's the aspect of that from impact, right? Like investing your money in like good quality, impact, exponential impact, etc. But then there's also this idea of the actual money that you're using and that and then that having the ability to grow and duplicate itself. And so it's almost this like, if you can get both of those things, man, you're hitting the jackpot in terms of stewardship and giving.
[00:53:38] Speaker A: No, I think you're exactly right in thinking through ways to be able to be the best steward. And that's how you get to those places of serendipity, to where you get out of the scarcity mindset, that when you show that posture, then all of a sudden someone comes alongside you and takes you under their wing, something breaks loose because you have done the work to be prepared and to come forward with a plan. That is going to change, is going to pivot, but you've done a great job in showing that. I've not left a single stone unturned.
[00:54:18] Speaker B: About our another value of ours. There's so many parallels which doesn't Spencer, this doesn't happen in every podcast episode. We have so many parallels with the guests that we're talking with and our values at Love justice, but one of them is thinking audaciously. Thinking audaciously and doing much little. And I feel like this conversation is such a unique combination of both of those things that everyone should be talking about this and everyone should be like thinking about how to do this really well in the nonprofit space, because that is the sweet spot. Thinking audaciously and how to do much with little. Because there might not be not to have the scarcity mindset, but the reality is there might not be as much funding in profit space as the for profit space. But this is one of the Thinking audaciously and doing much with little is what creates margin for the I can't think of the word but the non scarcity mindset. The abundance, abundance mindset. There we go.
[00:55:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:55:20] Speaker C: The operating. I think we said it well earlier. I mean operating in such a way that you're trying to be the business who you're becoming, not just in the place that you are now. And you know, and I think I just would highlight one other thing too on this is like a lot of nonprofit. Every nonprofit that has scaled well has an element of entrepreneurialism, an element of a business mentality that was that created that scalability mindset. Right. Like you there. Everyone that's done that, every leader I've talked to in the space who's done it well, you can tell like you said, Spencer, they're bilingual in that they don't just talk nonprofit, they can talk in the scalability in the for profit space. And I think it's important if you know, regardless of the of the context that you're in as an entrepreneur, don't just think about what you don't have, leverage what you have. And I think what in the nonprofit world, we often miss that we have some donors who care about more than just writing a check.
We have donors. There are donors. There always are not, there aren't a ton of them, but every nonprofit has donors who would say, I actually care about your mission so much. I'll even give of my expertise right? Like I'll even bring my expertise to the table. And I think we miss that sometimes. Right? Like that's part of, that's part of something we're trying to work on right now is how do we create a collaboration collective among our guys, among our donors, so that they start even realizing, oh, this is how they'll add value to each other and to us right in the way that they care about this mission together. And, and so just leverage what you have. Don't, don't think about what you don't have. Or hey, I need this. That, that's that scarcity mindset. But leverage what you do have and make the most of it. Yeah.
[00:57:13] Speaker B: Yeah.
Spencer, I have a question for you that might seem a little bit out of left field, but you also agreed to come out to the Love justice podcast. And so there's an element of justice around this conversation that I would just love to hear as we close our time out together, more about from you. And that is what makes you passionate about fighting injustice.
[00:57:38] Speaker A: I think David versus Goliath is a story that is imprinted on every heart of every human, whether they're faith minded or not. There is a comeback story. There is an element of rooting for the underdog that is just part of the fabric of our soul. And injustice flies directly in the face of everything that most humans hold as a value. Seeing someone much larger come along and put their thumb on someone that's trying to do the right thing, that's showing up, doing all the stuff that they were led to believe they should do, and then they get squashed and they have no lawyers to fight it, no money to fight it, no mental energy to fight it, and it makes us all sick. And that to me, especially for someone that likes to root for the underdog, is something that I like to have an opportunity to speak into.
Can't speak into all of it. There's always going to be pockets of poverty and injustice. This world is not our home. And that is the reality and nothing we can do to change that. But what I do think that we can do is put our head on the pillow at the end of each day and say, you know what, I put it all out there on the field and I didn't leave anything on the sideline. I gave the best effort of my stewardship and my mind share to be able to make an impact. And that's going to have to be enough. And that's really the heart posture that I try to adopt out of it, is how can I make the biggest impact, particularly in places where the injustice of what's happening is most acute.
[00:59:32] Speaker B: Yeah, that's good.
[00:59:33] Speaker C: So good. So good. Well, and you've modeled that. I think people who even do any little bit of what you take a look at what you've done and what you've accomplished and you've modeled that and the things that you've done. I'm grateful for that.
[00:59:48] Speaker A: I think if I model it to one degree, you all model it 100 fold. What I do. I mean, you all are at the absolute epicenter of focusing on the least of these, those that are neglected and are overlooked and where injustice reigns without intervention. And so I appreciate the kind comment, but it's a hundredfold back at the work that you all are doing. So thank you for impacting it in the way that you do. It's a posture that's far easier for me than it is for you all and that you all are really where the rubber meets the road in terms of making an impact and making life change.
[01:00:30] Speaker C: Oh, thank you. And you're kind to say that our heroes are twofold. They're those transit monitors that are on the ground that look for the red flags and help notice those potential victims being trafficked and then also those donors who support.
[01:00:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:00:50] Speaker C: That work. And. And so we're thankful for both sides of that hero base. And yeah, I love that. And you're kind to say that. But. But I come back full circle to Thomas Summers. But one of the things, Spencer, that Thomas, when I told Thomas that we were on the preventative side and that we worked hard to find the right solutions that would. That would have impacted. Right. And my hat, I don't know if you can see it now. I'm looking at the. It says before. Right. Like the idea of before someone sold into slavery, before they experienced the trauma of sex slavery or forced labor or worse. We have people that are saying, let's intercept them out of the transit toward that final destination and give them a chance to be educated, understand what's happening and have a new trajectory other than the hideous future that they were going toward if we had not stepped in. And so that before idea and the solution minded nature of it was a part of what he said. I need to connect you with Spencer. He thinks like this. So like.
[01:01:59] Speaker A: And I love that.
[01:02:00] Speaker C: And so I think that's the beauty of why he felt and why I felt too. The more he told me about you, why I felt like you would care about what we're doing. So grateful for you, Spencer.
[01:02:12] Speaker A: Well, there's an old saying that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. And I think that there is no greater truth than in the industry that you are having to fight against is that a single ounce of prevention saves so much lasting and in many cases, permanent damage that it's amazing to see what you all are doing to stretch resources and stretch a dollar and find a way to save the least of these.
[01:02:42] Speaker C: Well, we're grateful, man. Thank you. We love asking as a last question, we love asking our guests this question. So we'll close with this one.
Who else should we invite onto the podcast? Like, is there anybody? When you think about us, you think about what we're doing that you know, that you're like, you know what? I should introduce you to so and so. You should talk to them.
[01:03:02] Speaker A: You know, I am surrounded by networks of super connectors who have gifts that I do not possess. As I talked about at the beginning, what I'm gonna do is I'll reach out to the people that I surround myself with that do have that gift, and I will ask that question, because if you don't have a gift, the next thing to do is surround yourself with the people that do have. And I think that's a. A great through line for the podcast today. That's right. Yourself with people that have gifts that are not your own.
[01:03:34] Speaker C: I love it.
[01:03:34] Speaker A: I love it.
[01:03:36] Speaker B: Thank you so much for just your generosity with your time, with your knowledge, with your experience, with your tips and everything that you shared today. I think in a world where people can make a lot of money off of the types of things that you shared, you were just very generous and being open with us, and we are so thankful for that and so expression for what that will do, not just within Love justice, but within our listening community. So we've. It was such a joy and such a pleasure to have you on today.
[01:04:05] Speaker A: Thank you, Hannah. I really appreciate it. Thank you, Jason.
[01:04:08] Speaker C: Thank you.
[01:04:10] Speaker A: We are grateful for the generous support of the Love justice community. Please consider joining our family of donors. Learn more at lovejustice ngo.
