[00:00:02] Speaker A: Welcome to the Love justice podcast, where we hear from different voices who are joining us in the fight against modern day slavery. Please welcome today's guests, Kirk Schweitzer and Austin Fleischer.
[00:00:15] Speaker B: Well, hey, welcome to the Love justice podcast. We are so excited about this episode where we get to hang out together as two organizations, IJM and ljihdental. We'll talk more about that here in just a second. But, Hannah, so good to be with you again. How are you doing?
[00:00:34] Speaker C: Yeah, we're reunited after a couple weeks.
[00:00:38] Speaker B: Reunited, and it feels so good. All right, so there you go. That's all we'll do of singing for the episode. But go ahead and introduce our guests for us.
[00:00:49] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I feel like I say this every episode, but our listeners are in for a real treat. We have returning guest Kirk Schweitzer from LJI program staff, and an extra special guest and friend of love justice today, Austin Fleischer. So welcome, guys. Why don't we just go ahead and just have you start by introducing yourselves and explain your roles at your prospective organizations.
[00:01:17] Speaker D: Great. I'm happy to go. My name is Austin, and I'm a recruiter at International Justice Mission, or IJM. I started at IJM ten years ago as an intern in a couple of our offices located in East Africa, and then I was hired onto our HR team in Washington, DC, where our global headquarters is. And then I transitioned after a couple of years on the HR team over to our global programs team. And then for the past several years, I've actually been back on the HR team, supporting expatriate staff and recruiting for positions in the US and other regions around the world.
[00:01:56] Speaker B: Cool.
[00:01:57] Speaker A: And I'm Kirk Schweitzer. I started with Love justice just over ten years ago, moved to Kathmandu, Nepal, and joined our anti trafficking program staff team, and have now shifted into the role of chief of staff with the organization and now live in South Africa, where we're kind of establishing a new program headquarters here.
[00:02:16] Speaker C: Yeah, we have some similarities between the two of you being with both of your organizations as long as you have been. Just tell me what motivated you to get into this work in the first place. I feel like that probably has to be connected to both of your longevities.
[00:02:33] Speaker A: I can go first on this one.
So I definitely. When I think of kind of what motivated me and I think back, I start thinking about some of the experiences I had in school. I studied abroad, actually in Uganda. Austin, you mentioned your time in Uganda. Uganda has a special place in my heart. From studying abroad there had a couple experiences that just opened my eyes up to a world that I wasn't familiar with growing up in the midwest. And in a really cool way, it also opened up my eyes to the church and how God was at work around the world. And it was through those experiences that I just wanted to be a part of that in some way. And cool, just cool. Connection to IJM is part of my kind of understanding and learning about human trafficking. And I think there's so many stories like this was from reading, and particularly reading a book of Gary Huygens called terrify no more.
And I can basically still remember the moment and the emotion that came when I read a chapter in that book where he's describing the nature of human trafficking in a particular area of the world, but also more broadly. And there's a chapter called where were you?
And in that chapter, he's reflecting on what that question is. The question that our grandchildren will ask us when they realize that there's the context of human trafficking is they're reflecting on their past. They'll be asking us, where were you in that context? And that question stood out to me so much. And he ends that chapter saying, I hope we can say that we showed up, that we showed up on time. And I just remember feeling like, okay, I've got to do something. I can't not know what's going on. I've got to get involved. So I've always been a huge supporter of IJM. Loved the work there. And was that Gary Haugen? And his writing played a big part in me getting in this track.
[00:04:27] Speaker D: That's great. I love that. Kirk. I feel like we do have a lot of similarities, even with the story of how we first got involved.
During college, I was at a conference, and similarly, I heard a survivor. I heard a story of a survivor of trafficking. And I also grew up in a pretty comfortable bubble in the US. And that story was my first exposure to the brutal reality of violence that exists in the world. And at the time, I was introduced to both the work of love, justice, and of ijam. And after that conference, I think Gary Haugen, the CEO of IJam and founder, I think he also spoke at that conference and asked the same question when our grandkids asked us, where were you when this everyday violence and slavery is happening? What were you doing after the conference? I went home. I researched both organizations. I noticed that love justice had a trip for people to visit Nepal for six weeks to see really up close one, the culture in Nepal that love justice is working in and then to the problem that they're addressing and how they're addressing it. And so I went on that trip. I was introduced to a few people who used to work for IJM. When I returned from that trip and was nearing college graduation, I found myself researching IJM again. And so I applied and got accepted to a year long internship in East Africa, where I spent time both in Zambia and in Uganda. And then I've been on staff with them ever since. But very similar story to you, Kirk Austin.
[00:05:59] Speaker C: I think we might have been at the same conference, because vice, not that we're asking me the answer to this question, but it's very connected to what you just said. And so it's, for our listeners, it was the passion 2012 and 2013 conferences. Like, if you wanted to go back and hear Gary's talks, I think they're very powerful. And we've had so many people in our recruiting process that reference, that experience as being what catapulted them into this work, which I'm sure you guys at IJM hear something very similar.
[00:06:28] Speaker D: Yes, for sure. It was those conferences. I was there both of those years. And so you went to IJM. I went to LJ, and then we flip flopped, where you went to a justice night came time.
[00:06:38] Speaker C: Yeah. So powerful that one, you know, conversation can have such a ripple effect.
[00:06:47] Speaker B: Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. That conference, Gary's writings, I mean, there were so many amazing things happening in that season that prodded, prompted, and compelled you guys and many others to get involved. And both of these organizations are, are doing really amazing work. Right. International justice mission. Love justice International.
And yet they do different type of work in this anti trafficking world. And so you guys talk about that a little bit, like, how are they similar? How are they different? You know, but both really meaningful and significant.
[00:07:27] Speaker D: Yeah, I can talk about IJM.
So our mission is to protect people in poverty from violence. And so we believe that when perpetrators of violence are held accountable for their crimes, that then the prevalence of that crime will decrease and that there will then be a population of people who are protected from ever experiencing violence. And so depending on what jurisdictions we're working in, we're either working on cases of police abuse of power, violence against women and children, or slavery. And we have offices all over the world. And in each of those offices, we hire local investigators, lawyers, social workers who take on these cases of violence, push them through the local justice systems. And what that helps us do is diagnose the gaps of the reasons why perpetrators of violence are not being held accountable. And so then we then respond to those gaps in the justice system by partnering with the government to build up their justice system to respond to the slavery and violence that's happening, so that survivors of violence are restored, perpetrators of violence are held accountable, and ultimately resulting in the protection of people from ever experiencing violence, because potential perpetrators understand there will be a consequence for their violence. And so I love to hear from you, Kirk, how you think some of the work that you guys are doing at lob justice are complementary to some of that. I'm not as familiar with some of the work that web justice has been doing for the past ten years or so. And I know it's evolved a lot since I. I was there twelve years ago.
[00:09:01] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that's cool, Austin. And I think we've always kind of thinking about this question. I think we've always very clearly understood that when you're tackling something as big as human trafficking, global human trafficking around the world, this isn't like a one strategy fits every situation, or one strategy is just going to solve it. And so I think we've always thought that our piece of this puzzle was exactly that. It was a piece. And so cool to see so many different organizations around the world kind of attacking it in different ways. I love the ways that the path that Ijam has taken, it's been even cool to watch from afar in some ways, kind of how they've evolved and changed, and so admire how they pioneered this space.
I would say, as we think about the primary methods in this kind of ecosystem of organizations that are working to fight against human trafficking, I think we would recognize two pretty broad, I'll paint in some broad strokes here two pretty broad strategies. One would be.
Would be what I would describe as pre trafficking efforts. And so awareness, job creation, really kind of with the intention to stop it before it happens. And then the latter would be the post trafficking, and it's the organizations that you need to rescue the people who are currently enslaved. And so it's investigation strategies, it's rescues, it's aftercare. And in terms of how our work, which. Our primary strategy is transit monitoring, we've just seen that there's this gap, there's this space, kind of in between that pre trafficking, post trafficking strategies where transit monitoring fits in. And again, it's not to say that it's better or either one of these shouldn't be done, but we just have recognized there's this space. And maybe for many years, there's been little attention on this space. But we've just found it to be a very strategic time to get involved. At the moment that someone's being trafficked and to have monitors out searching, looking for identifying red flags.
At the moment, somebody is moving, actively moving into that situation of human trafficking, we kind of internally, this isn't meant to be a legal definition or replace anything like that, but internally, we just simply define human trafficking as moving someone into slavery. And so it's that point of movement that we have kind of honed in with our strategy. That's the point. We're looking to find someone at that point of movement so that we can stop them from. From reaching that final destination of slavery in whatever form that takes.
[00:11:26] Speaker D: That's great.
[00:11:28] Speaker B: It's really good. And it's amazing how, like you said, Kirk, both are needed, both approaches are needed. We recognize that. And yet what has been really special is to see the work of IJM continue to flourish, be impactful, and in these last few years, to see the work of LGI begin to really grow in its impact.
And as we're amplifying that story, people, I think, are thankful for both. Right. For both approaches. You know, as we talk about and we share that story, I sometimes actually have had people here in the states say, is human trafficking really a problem? Right. Like, they hear us talk about it, and they think, you know, this is so cool what you do, but is that really an issue? Is it really a problem in the world today?
So can you guys talk about that? Is it a problem? Which I think we all, on this, know the answer to that. But for our listeners and our viewers, is it a problem, and why is it so difficult to combat?
[00:12:37] Speaker A: Yeah, I can. I can just share a quick first comment. The first thing I would say is, I think, you know, you see probably in indev, in the world today, we want to understand it. There's different attempts to understand it, to try and calculate how many slaves are there today, and it's so difficult. What's so tricky with trafficking? It's a hidden crime, takes place in the dark, and so the reality is we don't know how many people are affected by it. I think that's the most honest thing I can say to that question, is we don't know. But looking at all the estimates that are out there, and maybe each one has its pros and cons and maybe even flaws in how they're. But attempting to describe how many people are currently slaves today, we don't know. And yet the best estimates are that there involves tens of millions of people in modern day slavery today. So that for that reason and knowing, again, going back to that definition of trafficking, that what we're talking about is somebody being moved into slavery. That is what makes tens of millions of people that have been moved into slavery, regardless of what that number is. Exactly. That places this among one of the world's greatest injustices, we believe.
[00:13:46] Speaker D: Yeah, I agree, cricket. It really is hard to estimate, but it is probably tens of millions of people.
I think what makes it really hard to combat is there's a lot of financial incentivization and power incentivization. I think it's also estimated that, I think, $150 billion a year is generated from human trafficking, two thirds of that being, I think, from commercial sexual exploitation. I think what makes it really hard to combat is some of those incentives that people have, and it really requires government ownership and the ability of the government to increase the performance of the justice system by rescuing, restoring, and holding people who are perpetrating this violence, holding them accountable. And it's just not easy to build up the justice system capacity. It requires a significant monetary training for members of many members of the justice system, including police, lawyers, social workers, judges.
And it's just a lot of different people who are involved. And so trying to put together a functioning justice system just isn't easy.
[00:14:56] Speaker C: Yeah. And I think the next question that kind of proceeds is human trafficking real? Is, how could someone allow themselves to be in that situation? Or how do they find themselves in a situation where they're trafficked? And you both are so unique in that you've spent time in the field, and so you've probably seen the vulnerabilities up close and personal as to how that could happen. So I'm hoping that each of you could just share with our listeners about different examples of what might be going on in someone's life that makes them a target for a trafficker.
[00:15:38] Speaker D: Yeah, I think I'd be interested to hear some of what Kirk would say. I think for a lot of IJM cases, the vast majority of trafficking victims come from desperate economic situations and are more likely to take risks to accept a vague job offers offer that promises some quick cash.
False debts are commonly used to trap laborers in a cycle of that of debt that's designed to be impossible to pay back.
Those are some of the most common cases I've seen is with people who are just really desperate economic situations, trying to do anything to put food on the table, to send their kids to school, take care of their family members who might be ill cases like that.
[00:16:25] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree with that, Austin.
We have this understanding that any place that we're going to do transit monitoring, we need to be flexible to adapt our model to fit that context and the realities there on the ground. But I would say the one really consistent thing we've found is that the really common narrative is exactly what you're describing. It's people that are in search of job opportunities and traffickers preying on that. And that is. And it's hard to really put yourself in the shoes of those people and what they would be willing to risk for their family. And when a job opportunity that maybe it's too good to be true, they see maybe some of the flags or some of the concerns. But I think it's very difficult for us to imagine what could be like to be in their shoes with no other options or opportunities.
But that's certainly what we see across many, many countries. Is. Is that narrative?
[00:17:23] Speaker C: Yeah, that's so true. And I think, like, I would just love to hear from both of you where have each of your organizations had some success? We talked about how it's difficult to combat the nuances of it. But in that same vein, I know that both LJI and IJM have incredible impact stories and would just love to hear one or two of them.
[00:17:46] Speaker A: Cool. I can jump in. I'm eager to hear from Austin on this one as well, but I'll just jump in quick. We, last month, we actually had an intercept record. So it's a timely. It's a timely question. We had an intercept record. When we intercept a potential victim who's being trafficked, it's because we, our teams on the ground have determined that there's either evidence of trafficking right now or there's a very high risk of trafficking. And we've got a process for determining that and verifying that impact before we would count it. But last month, we crossed 2000 intercepts for the first time. Our previous monthly intercept record, I believe, was 1800 and some change, and we actually hit 2300. And I don't, I should know the exact number, but it was just over 2300. So we actually smashed our previous intercept record, which was pretty cool. And the other piece of that, our impact that I would say as an organization we are hyper focused on is impact on the dollar. Looking to see what does it cost us to achieve this impact and how do we continue to become more efficient as an organization, one of our values is to do much little. And so a global value that's connected to that is to define measure and allocate by impact. We want all of our resources, whatever limited resources we have to be allocated in a way that's going to create the greatest possible impact. And so we track impact very closely. We measure it on the dollar. And one of the one year goals that we've had for the last two years, it was a one year goal. Both years we achieved in the last couple months, and we wanted to hit $120 in intercept, and we hit 117 just a couple months ago, which was a huge, huge milestone for us. And so we were so excited about that.
To be able to intercept somebody that we believe and prevent them from being trafficked for $117 we just felt like is a really cool, incredible impact.
Awesome. I'm so excited. Ijam has had such an impact. We'd love to hear more about what you guys are up to.
[00:19:43] Speaker D: Yeah, that's amazing. Thanks for sharing that. I hadn't known all the success that LJim has seen, so it's very exciting to hear. As a recruiter for IJM, I talk to candidates all the time and I tell them about the work that we're doing, and this is one of my favorite things to talk about.
So when IJM starts a program, we work with the third party company to conduct a baseline survey to tell us the prevalence of the particular type of violence that exists in a jurisdiction. And then at the end of a program, we do the same thing to see has our program made any progress. We also measure by results.
One of my favorite things about Ijam that we've been talking about for the last year is that we've closed nine projects over the last decade that have shown a decrease in slavery and violence between 50 and 85% for very large populations of people in poverty. Just really quite unbelievable results.
And that's 50% to 85% of very large populations of people living in poverty who know no longer have to experience slavery and violence due to a working justice system that's holding people accountable. People have a confidence in that. The justice system will work. If they call a police officer or call somebody in the justice system, they know that people will be held accountable. I think a very specific example is most recently one of these third party companies who helped us conduct an end line survey in the indian state of Tamil Nadu. It's a huge state. 70 million people live there. I think that's the population of both Texas and California combined, just a state in India, and it's notoriously burdened by slave labor. And the third party judges found that Igam's project had reduced slavery in that state by 82%.
So I think that's 380,000 people who removed from slavery to freedom over those years, and that's so much more people who are protected from ever experiencing that type of slavery violence. So just very exciting things that we've seen.
[00:21:53] Speaker B: Yeah, that's amazing. I mean, hearing both, like, right, hearing what you guys are up to and some of those figures in those context, hearing and knowing what we're up to, Lji, it's just amazing. I love that we get to partner in this, we get to do this and attack this together. When you've got that kind of success and you're having that kind of impact. Obviously, those who are committed to human trafficking, not committed to anti trafficking work, but committed to actual human trafficking, are going to change and adjust. They're going to adapt. They're going to figure out new ways, which means that our organizations have to also figure out new ways.
You guys talk about that for just a minute about how the landscape of human trafficking, you see it changing currently and how you think it will be changing over the next decade.
[00:22:55] Speaker A: That's a challenging one. I mean, we're talking about an unknown future, but I'll just take a stab at it. Jason, and just Austin, I love hearing about just the scientific approach that IGM is taking there, and that's something that we've really felt like we've wanted to continue to lean into ourself and grow in that space ourselves in our own ways. And I think, and I'll connect it to this answer, Jason, of that. I think. I think more and more the organizations that are working to fight against human trafficking, like you heard from Austin, and we're getting smarter and we're finding more innovative scientific ways to really demonstrate impact.
And that's going to just continue.
I think an easy answer would be, I think there's going to be even more innovation brought to this space to combat human trafficking. There needs to be. I think there needs to be probably more models and more ideas for how to. How to push back on those incentives. Austin was talking back how to. How to identify victims, how to create, say, how to create job. You know, there's so many different ways and opportunities, I think.
And it's going to be this combined push in all these different directions that I think will, would reshape the landscape, I'll say, from our perspective, because we see this space, because we see this momentous, this strategic moment when people, as people are being moved, we're looking to create an alliance of partners that are interested in doing transit monitoring. And so that's something that we look forward to in the future of seeing that come to come to bear in different countries and different organizations and partnerships, and we're excited to think about what the impact of that could be.
[00:24:41] Speaker D: That's great. I don't have much to add to that, but I do agree that we'll have to continue to be innovative. One of my favorite things about Ijam is that we are pretty quick to pivot to address the results that we're trying to achieve. I think LJI, I've seen from a distance over the last several years is also very similar, which is something that I like about both of our organizations, is that we are quick to pivot when things need to change. We don't just get stuck in trying to do a certain that we think must be the fix to the problem.
But I think, similarly to Kirk, what I see in hope in the future, especially looking back at IJM's programming, I'm just excited for to take what we've learned over the last 25 years and to figure out what pieces of our program are the most important, what exact pieces of these really robust programs have led to a reduction, the prevalence of these crimes and taking those and leveraging those two. I think we've identified 47 jurisdictions that we want to work in over the next decade. We are going after this vision that Gary Haugen, our CEO, has set before us to ensure the protection of 500 million people from violence over the next decade. And we've identified where those jurisdictions are. And so I'm just hopeful that with the results that we've seen, that we can take what we've learned in and adapt them within the context of what those jurisdictions need to see, the same sort of protection for those people.
[00:26:15] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. Austin, something that we've been talking about internally for probably about a year now is just this idea or a vision of a tipping point that could lead to the end of human trafficking and whatever sort of maybe connected to the financial incentive of, like, the cost becomes so high to commit that crime that it just maybe slowly starts to decline. That's maybe some of the internal dialogue that we've been having. But I'm curious again to hear from both of you of what you think is needed for a tipping point to end human trafficking. And maybe, Austin, you can tell you stab at that one first.
[00:27:00] Speaker D: Yeah, it's a great question.
I think so. I think we know that slavery and trafficking is actually illegal almost everywhere. It's just not the perpetrators know that if they do it, they won't be held accountable. And so I do think that a tipping point could be, I think two things. One, justice systems and government's own.
The ability to hold perpetrators accountable so that people know if they commit this crime, they will serve a sentence in jail, they will pay a really expensive fine, whatever the legal ramifications of that would be. I think another tipping point could be being able to show governments where this has worked before. So in the case of IJM's programs, what are some of jurisdictions where we've actually seen a success in reducing the prevalence of slavery and trafficking and then taking that to other places and saying, hey, this might not look exactly the same here, but what are some ways that we can use what we've learned from this jurisdiction and just apply that here? I think so. I think it's a couple of things, and I'm sure you guys have some great ideas as well.
[00:28:20] Speaker A: I'll just add to that. The first thing I think about in response to that question is it's really tipping points. It's really multiple tipping points. And kind of like Austin shared about those examples of prevalence and the decrease that was a tipping point in those areas. It would seem that, you know, to have a 50, 60, 70, 80% decrease. IGM found a tipping point and where it was able to influence that in that space. And so there's no such thing, probably, as a single tipping point for all human trafficking, but it's the combination of many tipping points coming together.
And I think it can be done in a lot of the ways that Austin's talking about. And imagine an empowered justice system alongside a transit monitoring strategy where monitors are identifying victims as they're being trafficked and police are in collaboration because they've been empowered and to keep people safe. I think there's a lot of pieces there that if they come together, we will see tipping points that not only just slowly decrease trafficking, but rapidly do so. Because once you hit that tipping point, it suddenly became. Becomes not worth it. And there's. I think there's. There'd be a sudden change and a sudden decrease in some ways. So, yeah, it's a cool thing to think about and it's. It's a future that I'm very hopeful for as well.
[00:29:33] Speaker D: Yeah. Can I add one more thing also, I think one of the really exciting things also happening at IJM or something that we get to be a part of is one of the things we've been focusing on over the last, I think, five years now more than ever, has been incorporating survivors into our programming, incorporating people who are interested in our advocacy strategies. And so there's a really cool project that has happened recently in the Philippines, where the government in the Philippines and a group of survivors of a particular type of violence there, Ijam, has brought them together to facilitate a conversation of how the government can the survivors, they've opted to share their story, and the government has signed an agreement with them that for any policy regarding this particular type of violence, that they will listen to this group of survivors.
I think that will also be a tipping point, is for survivors who can and are able and who are willing to share their stories with these agents of change. I think that will also be one of the tipping points that we'll start to see.
[00:30:42] Speaker C: Austin, it's funny you mentioned that, because I was going to ask you this earlier. I saw that, I don't know if it was a documentary or if it was something on your socials, that someone, I think it was from the Philippines, please correct me if I'm wrong, but there was someone helped rescue 20 years ago that just recently visited the IJM offices, got to meet Gary for the first time, got to meet someone else on staff responsible for that. And she's now maybe connected with her own ngo and advocating for people in her own country. And it's like, how can you not get so excited? And also moved by stories like that.
[00:31:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:31:18] Speaker D: This is a story of nary from Cambodia. I think this was in the early days of IJM. She was one of a few girls who were IJM helped with the local police in Cambodia to rescue out of, I think it was a brothel and was.
Went through whatever the aftercare process looked like then, but never really kept in touch with anybody from IJM. Our team was so small then, but then one day, I think she. I don't know the exact story. You guys should check out the documentary. But she figured out that it was IJM and asked if she could come meet Gary and Sharon Kunwu, who were the people on the ground who had been part of that story. And it's just a really powerful moment where Nary walks into the IJM office, and she remembers Sharon, who sat with her in a really vulnerable place before she was placed in whatever her aftercare process looked like. So I really encourage you to check out the documentary. It's just one story. And so if you imagine government officials listening to these people who have experienced horrific violence, how can you.
How can you not listen to them? How can you not change some of the things that you're doing. So I think that's just a very powerful thing that we can support the efforts of.
[00:32:43] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it's incredible. I mean, any.
We collect stories just like you guys do, and it feels like every story that I'm able to read through, every story I'm able to share is just even that much more impactful, motivates people toward change. But to put those together, like, to get those victims, those that have been a part of that trauma and affected by that trauma, to talk to the people that are making the policies, I love that. I think those are the kinds of collaborations and the kinds of connections that we've got to keep making more of, and hopefully we can see that tipping point. Austin, I don't know if you saw recently, our CEO sent a link to an article that was in the New York Times about how the human trafficking in Calcutta was affected so significantly because of some of the work that was going on there. And that was even connected not only to rescue, but to border monitoring, transit monitoring concepts.
And so the idea, like you guys are saying, of it being multiple tipping points and multiple connections, that. That really move us toward that moment, I think, is so powerful. So people that are listening, they're watching, they're hearing this, and maybe, like you guys, right at the passion conferences or when you read Gary's book, maybe they're hearing this and they're thinking, okay, I know I need to do something. And maybe they've heard about this for a long time, but for whatever reason, this just hits a, you know, how can people get involved? And Austin will let you jump in first. Like, how can people support IJM? How can they get involved with you guys? And then we can also share a little bit about what that means for LJI, too.
[00:34:38] Speaker D: Yeah, that's great. I think what I love about Ijam and LJi, I think there are just so many opportunities, different levels of engagement. I think one of the best ways to find out I how to get involved with IJM is going to our
[email protected], dot. There's so much great information on there. We love it when people want to be involved with our work. And so we've made it super accessible.
That could be from anything of applying to an internship like I did, that's semester based, or could even include living up to a year in another country, just serving our teams in the field who are doing this really hard work day after day, underscoring and supporting them in any way that is helpful to them. Also applying to an employee position, becoming a local volunteer. A lot of cities, especially around the US, we have a lot of opportunities to volunteer in order to raise awareness about everyday violence that's happening and also to become a key partner of ijam's work by becoming a partner and donating to our work on a monthly basis. There's just so many different types of ways to engage in. All of that is on our
[email protected], dot.
[00:35:47] Speaker B: So, Kirk, I'll let you jump in too. And then we can even offer from our side, on the state side, a few of the new ways that we're working on that people can get involved. But how would you say, just in your own experiences, as you've been with us for so long, that you've seen people get involved and support and be a part of the work that lgis do?
[00:36:11] Speaker A: Yeah, I think I'll say we as an organization, but also, I have gotten this question a lot in the last ten years. Somebody finds out about what we do and the question is, what can I do now? What's my response?
And yes, there's opportunities on our website to get involved. There's staffing positions, there's volunteer opportunities. I encourage you to check it out. But maybe what I would encourage you even more to do would be to be responsible for that little flame, maybe that just caught fire in your heart.
Be responsible for it, because it will blow, it will go out if left unnurtured. And one of our values at love justice is to let injustice break your heart. And nobody wants to do that. I don't want to do that. I daily do not want to face up to injustice. I don't want to engage with. I'm going to look the other way and. But I challenge you to face it. To face it and let it break your heart. Let it break your heart. And it doesn't mean we just need to sit there, but let it. Let it change the trajectory of your life. And it might not mean you're going to go move to South Africa, but maybe it does. Or maybe you're going to move to Uganda with IBM, or maybe you're going to. Maybe it will do that, but maybe it's not. But maybe it changes your life in a different way. Maybe it changes your heart posture and tension towards injustice in a way that I think Christ is calling his church towards. And so that's how I would respond to that question.
[00:37:36] Speaker C: Yeah, that's good.
[00:37:38] Speaker B: I love it. I think.
Ijm.org, comma lovejustice dot ngo and, and more specifically, lovejustice dot ngo media are where we've got multiple, very easily accessible links and spots where you can connect to learn more. And so, you guys, any last words, hannah, as you can, wrap it up for us, but any last words from you guys before Hannah wraps it up for us here?
[00:38:11] Speaker A: Just that I just want to reiterate so appreciate the work of international justice mission and wouldn't have can confidently say I would not be here today if it was not for the work of IGM and being inspired just learning about human trafficking today and so continue to just stand in admiration of the work that is being done there. And so thanks, Austin, for your part in it.
[00:38:32] Speaker D: Thanks, Kirk. And similarly, I wouldn't be here without love justice. My started at love justice, and I'm just really grateful for the work there. Really grateful to keep in touch with Hannah, who I've known for a long time, time. And whenever she emails me or sends me a text about something that we can potentially partner on or just brainstorm on, I love it. I love being able to partner with you guys on very formal, informal ways as well, just through these relationships that we have. So I'm just really grateful.
[00:39:00] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. I like this conversation is so encouraging. And I think for someone, you know, for all of us who have been in this work for so long, it's conversations like these that give us a little bit of fuel for the fire of, like, yes, like, let's keep going. I got goosebumps multiple times through this conversation, and it's like, I don't know, it's just, I love how the spirit moves in that. And I think just thank you to both of you guys for the long walk of obedience in the same direction that you both have chosen time and time again. And it's because of that that you both, not by yourselves, obviously, but both get a. To celebrate in the successes of both IJM and Lji and have gotten to be a part of that in whatever way that has looked like over the years. So thank you guys for that. And also thank you for being a part of this conversation and just really expectant to see how God continues to move in this space, both from a program perspective, but also from the church. And I just. Yeah, I can't imagine what it's like to be Gary and just hear how God moved through his, like, his. His talks and his resources and how he just probably was being obedient to why he felt like God was asking. And. And just the fruit of that is just mind blowing to me. And just incredible to think about. So if you see him, Austin, you'll have to send him our regards. But yeah, similar to what, Jason? Just huge fans of IJM, some of your guys, biggest cheerleaders. I think all of us have some sort of connection to IJM and yeah, just really, really thankful for you, Austin, and thankful for your time today.
Yeah. And it's great to see you.
[00:40:46] Speaker D: Yeah, thanks for having me. I've really enjoyed reconnecting with you, Hannah, and getting to meet you, Jason and Kirk. Thank you so much.
[00:40:55] Speaker A: We are grateful for the generous support of the love justice community. Please consider joining our family of donors. Learn more at lovejustice NGo.
