Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: Welcome to the Love justice podcast, where we hear from different voices who are joining us in the fight against modern day slavery. Please welcome today's guests, Julius Lutallo Chiang and Bryony fickling.
[00:00:15] Speaker B: Welcome to the Love justice podcast. I'm our host, Hannah Munn, and I'm here with two really, really special guests today, Julius and Bryony. And today we're going to be talking about what exactly is transit monitoring? But before we do, can you guys just introduce yourselves to our listeners?
[00:00:34] Speaker C: Absolutely. Thank you, Hannah, for having us today. My name is Bryony Fickling. I'm the senior director for anti trafficking at Love Justice International, and I'm based in South Africa.
[00:00:45] Speaker D: Yes, thank you very much, Hannah, for the amazing introduction. I'm Julius Rutallo Chiengi. I'm the regional steward for Eastern and Western Africa, and I also so work as a police liaison lead at Lab justice here in Kampala, Uganda.
[00:01:03] Speaker B: You'll see we might have some challenges with our podcast today with the Internet connection because Julius is calling in from, like he said, Uganda. So we'll make the best of it and hope for the best.
But for those of you who are tuning in for the first time and are interested in learning more about love justice's approach to anti trafficking work and how that differs from other approaches, go back and listen to our previous episode titled how does Love justice do anti trafficking work? Because that episode is really a precursor to the conversation that we're going to be having today. And the first kind of, I guess, topic that we're going to talk about is transit monitoring. And as far as we know, transit monitoring is the only tangible human trafficking prevention model. We say that internally at love justice all the time, and we communicate it externally regularly as well. So my question for you guys, especially being program leaders in the field who are closer to the work than most of our listeners, how do we know it's working? And why is it so tangibly impactful?
[00:02:18] Speaker C: I think that it's one of the things that we spend the most time talking about, reviewing, verifying it, really, that the answer to that question, or the question itself is something that we spend a lot of time on at love justice International, especially sort of behind the scenes, asking ourselves, holding, I think, ourselves in the anti trafficking work really accountable, I think, to ensuring that it is creating impact, as opposed to the opposite of potentially doing more harm than good.
And I think the recent numbers and just this consistent increase in numbers of intercepts month on month on month, it's been extraordinary to watch. There there is this sort of exponential growth of impact over time. And even in seasons where we've had less funds or where we've been sort of experiencing obstacles in various countries, there has been this increase of impact over time.
But I think more than just the numbers of which they are extraordinary on their own, I'll be honest, and I'm not coming from a place of maybe tooting our own horn as the anti trafficking team, but they are extraordinary. Our partners across the world have done extremely, extremely well in terms of just consistently improving sort of the effectiveness and efficiencies of their team. It's just been incredible to watch. But more than just sort of looking at the numbers of people being intercepted, I know it's working because of the amount of energy that we put in to make sure that we are confident in those numbers, that we can actually say that either people were at a very high risk of human trafficking and human trafficking in particular. Not just a high risk of a bad job or irregular migration, but specifically of human trafficking. Or that we know for certain that there is evidence of elements of control which tell us that someone will definitely have been trafficked, attack continued on their own and at love justice. We track all kinds of impact metrics in the anti trafficking work and in all the other departments as well.
It's sort of inspired by our. One of our values that is defined, measure and allocate by impact, which is kind of comes out of scripture, out of the parable of the talents, which kind of leads us to believe that God wants us not just to spend resources. Well, or to spend them, or to do sort of invest, but to multiply the resources that we've been given. And so there is this real, I think, dedicated desire to ensure that we're taking the resources that we have, we're tracking the impact that they have, and then consistently trying to improve on that.
So, yeah, I think practically just the amount of time that goes into collecting really great data, massively comprehensive data on every single case, and then it going through all these verification checks, the regular data audits, the spot checks that Hannah's laughing at because she's the one that leads this really important activity at Lab justice. But I think more than any time before, we're really confident that the data of each one of these cases that are happening on a natural basis is actually legitimate and that we can, with confidence, say that it is tangibly impactful, that it is actually preventing human trafficking from happening.
[00:06:20] Speaker B: Yeah. What about you, Julius?
[00:06:24] Speaker D: Yes, thank you. No, yeah, I completely agree with Randy and I think our model really does go to show that despite even challenges, it works in every country, regardless of what region we might be in, adopting the specific model and even adapting to it, sometimes in cases, we always have to adapt. It's proven to work and it's proven also that we are able to multiply these strategies in other locations and other areas. So I definitely, I mean, everything Bryony said, I think covers it. And yes, my input in this, at this moment would just be that for now. Yes.
[00:07:20] Speaker B: Yeah, I think, Bryony, hearing you talk through the impact is making me kind of verbally process with you that the way that we look at impact is actually kind of robust. And let me know if you disagree, because there's the scalable impact of not is it just impactful in one person's life, but is it impactful in multiple people's lives? And how can we scale that? And to the quest of finding a tipping point to disrupt human trafficking networks, there's that element of impact, and then there's the impact on individual lives that we hear occasionally the stories of, you know, the person who was. There's a story, I think, of in Mozambique, I think, where there was a young boy who had overheard his recruiter, I think, negotiating a price or negotiating the terms of what he was going to, and he didn't realize that that was happening. And just thinking about the impact on that person's life and how it changed the trajectory of their life indefinitely. And then there's the impact of all the data that we collect and how that plays into how we internally improve, sharpen, et cetera, et cetera. And then externally, how we choose to expand, where we choose to expand to, what are the different routes that traffickers and recruiters are using. And just thinking about that word impact, actually could mean a couple of different things, which is really, and I hope that, which is really interesting. Let me finish that sentence. And then what, I hope what will come out in this podcast through different episodes is almost spotlighting the different elements of that impact and the tangibleness of that impact. So I think what a lot of our listeners feel maybe a little bit disconnected from is how does this process work? How does transit monitoring actually?
How does it actually work? So I'm hoping, Julius, that you could walk us through the actual process of an intercept. What happens when someone is engaged with at a transit monitoring station from start to finish? And maybe you could articulate both an intercept and then maybe also something that wouldn't count as an intercept just to educate our listeners what that looks like, because we've mentioned previously, for every one intercept our team gets, they're probably questioning 50 to 100 people. So I'm hoping that you could just bring this to life for our listeners a little bit. Julius.
[00:10:00] Speaker D: Yes, certainly, Hannah. Thank you very much.
You know, in the african context, it's stopping anyone is always a challenge. You know, people are always on a mission. They're always busy. They always have somewhere to go. And stopping to talk to someone is definitely not part of anyone's agenda. So we've noticed that we have to employ different strategies in different areas.
Intercepting, for example, in a urban environment, in the capital city is inherently different than doing it in a smaller town or in a border area. But basically, when we intercept a potential victim, we spot that potential victim. Potential victims. Usually the methods change, but what one would call the actual intention is still always the same, going from 0.8 point b and ensuring that they get to that point b. So very often you find they're carrying bags.
You have miners especially.
Our continent is a very young continent. A lot of young people are moving from across borders. They do not want to work in their countries. A lot of the neighboring countries have better currency, better jobs. And of course, you know, traffickers use this to their advantage. You know, someone coming from the rural area, and a lot of the people we do intercept come from the rural areas. They generally much poorer, less educated. And to them, an opportunity of crossing the border and going somewhere is better than the current poverty that they stay in. So, you know, when we are looking certain specific, when we're looking for potential victims, you know, all of this goes into a monitor's head and thinking in order to stop the right person.
And so you'll find them. They're carrying bags. They look lost.
They are, but uneasy. They're nervous. You find some even crying.
So, you know, a monitor would approach a potential victim, and of course, it's a themselves and. But it's not scripted, right? Because it has to be natural. You know, if you go in and intercept a potential victim and it's very scripted and very, you know, you find that they might think you're a government worker or they might.
They don't want to answer your questions, you know. So a lot of monitors around the. Around the globe, our frontline workers, they always ensure that they're talking to potential victims. Like, they'll talk to a friend, you know, and this helps the potential victim relax. It helps the potential victim trust the person that's speaking to them, you know, so after the introduction. We usually just ask, start asking questions from the IR, from the intercept record forum that we use at the organization, and we see the information on the form. We don't have the form there. As I said, it has to be a very natural process. We don't want people thinking that this is a series of questions.
So they ask them questions and they rephrase them to make them understand, make them feel comfortable. Very often we'll buy them food or soda, because one thing I can tell you is that a potential victim will definitely be more amenable to answering your questions if they have a bottle of water or some food, because you also have to realize that a lot of these people, they've traveled from far. We're talking about six, 7 hours on the road. They've not eaten anything.
Suspected traffickers and hosts rarely give them provisions for food. They just say, here's money. And it's, everything is done through operation called mobile money.
And so very often a potential victim doesn't ever see money, you know, so when we intercept them, we talk to them, you know, we let them unwind, and then they start telling us their story. And there are certain stories that make sense to, and certain stories that don't make sense. Right. What is a good interception? Or what is an interception that shouldn't be an interception? You know, a potential victim who knows where they're going. A potential victim who has the phone number of where they're going. And you call that person and that person explains, yes, you know, that's, you know, and taking that person to work, you know, it happens. And, you know, sometimes we've even had cases wherever I suspected traffickers called. And we sensitize them and they apologize and say, it's okay, you can send them back. We'll give you money to send them back. You know, and so those are, you know, the kind of interceptions or, you know, when you ask them the questions that we would not see as a red flag situation and usually let them continue on their journey or they'll repatriate it back home, but then you have our red flags. You know, a potential victim doesn't know where they're going. They don't even know what they're going to do. Very often you find that what they've told you is not what the suspected traffickers going to tell our monitors when they call them. Right. In quite a few of our countries, luckily enough, monitors are able to talk to hosts, suspected or potential traffickers. Sorry, suspected traffickers. And stories change. You know, someone says they're going to do domestic work and then the suspected trafficker, because they know, they know what they're doing is wrong, especially when they are trafficking people through international borders. They know, they know 16, 1415 year old child should be taken across any international border and even within the country. And they know this. And so, of course, when we call them and they start changing their stories, you know, someone who was going through domestic work is all of a sudden now going to school, you know, all these red flags pile up after another, you know, so then we go back and we ask certain questions, you know, how much are they going to be paid? Sometimes they go, they target people with money, you know, and they'll say, you know, we're going to give you this x amount. But the truth is, in industry, people don't even get that kind of money. You understand?
Even people who work and are educated sometimes don't get that kind of money. And so you're looking at the industry and you're looking at the money and you say no, you know, and so these are all questions that we ask to find our potential victims.
And through the series of questions, if a red flag is set off, then we end up perpetuating the victim back to their homes and parents all the time thank us. You know, a lot of them don't even know their children are gone. Some of them find, some of them have filed cases for missing children. We've intercepted and called parents and they didn't know and they thank us. And, you know, they, some parents even call us a few weeks later just to thank us again. You know, that is the impact that we're bringing to families throughout the region and the various countries working.
[00:17:50] Speaker B: Yeah, Julius, I think you like, just even you hearing, hearing you articulate different circumstances, I think it just reminds all of us that not one intercept is the same as another and that when we look at the 1500 plus intercepts per month that we're getting, not one of those stories is the same. And so it is difficult to generalize, you know, each individual circumstance. But I think what you mentioned, something that I think is really important, and I just want to re emphasize this point, is that we have a tool that helps us identify potential victims that are at high risk of being trafficked or possibly in the process of being trafficked because of different elements of evidence, like the red flags that you mentioned. And so I think it's just worth diving into that a little bit more. And I think it's why this model works across all the different country contexts that we work in, to be honest with you, because you can contextualize that resource and it's not scripted. And I think that is one of the key tools that allows us to be impactful and scalable across different contexts. And that's the intercept record form, the IRF. And the way that that's designed is that the first section is profile. So does this person meet a profile that's targeted by traffickers? Are they moving into an industry or area known for trafficking? And are they without the resources to stay safe? Are they vulnerable? And if you have a case that meets those three criteria, then we would consider that person being at high risk of being trafficked. And then you have the elements of illegitimate means of control. And those are the red flags that you referred to, that if those are present, then there might be evidence that they're in the process of being trafficked. And the way that we design and research those different profiles and areas and industries are country specific. And that's part of the setup of a pilot. And before we start working in a country, we're researching, we're asking partners, we're asking other external stakeholders, what are the profiles that are targeted by traffickers in your countries? What are the areas and industries in your country and in surrounding countries that you hear people going to, because it's not going to be the same in Africa as it is in Asia. And so that's what I love particularly about the IR's. But what a lot of people don't realize is that we don't actually have the legal or maybe not realize. But I think what's helpful to know is that our staff in the field don't have the legal authority to prevent someone from continuing on to their destination. So talk about that. I really want you to like, bring to life, you know, how much time are, you know, the staff that you managed and because you were the project manager in Uganda at one point, how much time are they spending with PV's? What does that process look like? How are they convincing PBS that they're either at risk or they're in the process of being trafficked? And what's the kind of care that they're getting in the process from our team?
[00:20:54] Speaker D: Yes, thank you very much. So, yeah, definitely, you know, caring for our potential victims is the most important aspect of what we do to ensure that the harm principle that you're not prioritizing victims will potentially come back from exploitation, even though we don't really, that's not our area of central focus. But, you know, when we intercept an individual and usually there are a lot of them are minors. You know, we would, for example, after talking to the potential victim, hearing some of their questions, we would, a monitor would go back and of course, reach out to families to try and ensure that these people, that these potential victims are taken back and do reach their attended destinations. Very often in countries like Rwanda, for example, we call local leaders because sometimes family tracing is hard, but the local government leadership structure is amazing. And can, you know, call on someone in one of the local village chiefs and inform them that, you know, so and so will be coming back and please ensure that they repatriated home to their families. And as I said, a lot of times our monitors follow up with our, with our potential victims and their parents. You know, countries like Uganda, for example, we have stations on the eastern borders and our monitors, on their own accord, just go to the homes and see how they're doing. Almost like a welfare check. You know, they're not asked, they're not requested. And, but it just goes to show the passion that some that our monitors have for the work they do. Because without the passion, then I don't think we'll really get very far, you know, and victim for be less trusting of the work we do. And so, yeah, you know, the aftercare of a victim is very important. So as I said, we always ensure, we make sure that sometimes we involve police, especially when it's a minor.
You know, some countries have policies in place where, you know, a minor should, has to be repatriated with someone. You can't just, you know, put a 14 year old on a bus and say, thank you very, very much. I hope you reach home. No, of course, you know, we work with police. Some countries use, you know, what we call pathway referral systems, wherein, you know, the work we do is primarily not to intercept and patriot, but very often we a potential victim. I need to stay at a shelter overnight, you know, and we, if we don't have one, we would refer them to another organization, shelter them, you know, if they need to go to court, you know, when an arrest has been made, we find long term shelters and things like that. So, yeah, the care taken into a victim after interception is just as important as intercepting them in the first place.
[00:24:20] Speaker B: I think what would be helpful to hear from you two Briney is Julius described a very tactical experience. Right, like strategic and very programmatic. But there's also this spiritual element of why we do what we do. And what I love are the testimonies of how spirit led our staff are in that whole process. Can you share a little bit more about what that looks like for our teams, how their faith plays into the work and how that's also led to impact?
[00:24:55] Speaker C: Absolutely. You know, there is.
There is just incredible stories, I think, coming from the field.
And I always have a lot of empathy for monitors who are meeting people at their most desperate point. Right. They thought their dream was coming true. They thought they were going to solve a lot of life's problems. They thought perhaps they would, you know, be able to get a job and earn money, send it home to their family. And now everything that they've been told has essentially been discredited. And they realize that they have trusted someone that has actually had, you know, not had their best interests at heart. They're sometimes in far away from home or in a country that's not their home. Maybe they don't have any support network back home, or maybe they've left their loving family behind. Maybe they've sold all their belongings or. Do you know what I mean? I think painting a picture of where a potential victim is at when they are intercepted is important.
And then for a monitor to have to tell them that their dream is. It was just a dream and that it. That someone could very likely have enslaved them, hurt them, that is extremely traumatizing for a potential victim. Like, even though we've prevented this awful thing from happening, that is a moment of trauma.
And I think, you know, the gospel is. Is the only thing.
I don't even know if I can finish that sentence. It is the only thing. Right?
It is the only tool. It is the only words that we know how to say to someone in that moment of desperation, of loss, of trauma, of despair. It is a light of hope that can ignite, I think, in a person that helps them along their journey home, that gives them some kind of comfort. And I think that it is extraordinarily beautiful to hear stories from monitors who have used their own hope, their own story, their own salvation as a means to offer someone else this gift.
I think in many countries and in many places in this world, some people have heard of church, have heard of God, but in very distorted ways. And in other places, people haven't heard of God or they've heard other things, other religions, other means. Perhaps they've even, you know, engaged in various religions before. Perhaps they've gone to church, but actually they've never really understood or. Yeah, they've never really understood or actually met the real God, the real Jesus, who is their companion, friend in this moment. And I just. I just think it's an extraordinary gift to have that moment with someone, and that is what people are doing. And, you know, we don't mandate it. We don't track it as part of impact in a sense. You know, we don't report on it. And because we want it to come naturally, we want people to do it because it's a heart thing, because they believe in it, in sharing the gospel, and it does. It just. It's just beautiful, I think, to have this opportunity to do this kind of work, but then also to share the gospel with people who really need to know the real Jesus in that moment.
[00:28:52] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I even. I'm thinking of a story that recently came out of Sierra Leone where our team intercepted, I think, two or three young kids and their parents didn't know, and they repatriated them back home. And the parents were so thankful. And I think one of the questions the parents asked were like, why did you do this? Why did you do this? And, like, why were you even there? And the project manager was like, well, let me tell you about Jesus. Like, that's why. He's the reason why. And that whole family came to Christ. Like, it was just wild. And, like, I think it's worth saying that not everyone responds to that. Right. Like you said, you know, we, as. As much as our staff feel led in that process, it's an overflow of who they are in their own relationships and how they're feeling led in that moment. And there's times where they don't feel led. And I think there are times where it might not be appropriate, and then there are other times where it is, you know, these most amazing stories, and then there's times where they share and then they help them send on their way home. And I think the prayer is that, you know, that they love that person that day and that hopefully that seed that was planted might grow into something, you know, later on down the road. So I want to shift gears a little bit because I want to talk about. I want to talk about some success stories. I want to hear some stories from the field in just a minute. But before we do, I think it's worth asking the question, what are the risks and security issues involved in this model? Because the way that we're talking about it is like, it sounds really nice in theory, but the reality is that we are disrupting trafficking networks to some extent, and our staff are coming across traffickers and personally interacting with them. And we're at some of the obviously the busiest transit locations in the world.
Talk to our listeners a little bit about, yeah, just what security is like. What are the risks involved? How do we mitigate those risks? If you have any stories of times our staff were threatened, I think that would be helpful. And what the response was to that. I think just sharing with our listeners a little bit about that element of our model would be really helpful.
[00:31:08] Speaker D: Yes, definitely. Security of our monitors is paramount and the work we do definitely has risks involved.
You're disrupting trafficking networks and someone somewhere is not going to be happy. Right. But not only that, sometimes it goes as far as into the community, where you have people in the community who are. Are trying to prevent.
Trying to prevent the success of the work we do, rather.
So working with police and working with community leaders is key part of my role when I introduce myself as the police liaison leader for Lovelessness International. So I have a team of police liaisons whose job it is to liaise with the police. Right. Literally, the word speaks for itself. And this model, it's amazing. I mean, we have countries like Uganda and Liberia where we have police liaisons who fund and Malawi for that matter, who have there for quite some time, and you have just this amazing cooperation. I mean, you go through, you go to a border station in Uganda and the police are welcoming you, even if you come as a visitor, you know, once they hear the word, oh, you know, love, justice, they know they're happy with the work that we're doing there down on the ground. And so with that comes, you know, the protection, you know, if our monitors ever feel threatened in the field, if they ever have, if they're worried, you know, they're quick all the way, you know, some countries like Uganda, they even walk with the monitors, you know, depending on the locations that they're at, right.
Countries like Liberia, you will have situations where a few moments away, a few meters away, and they just run into there and they come out, get onto a motorbike and rush to the scene. So in terms of the protection of the work that we do, we always ensure that working with the community and police is paramount to the work we do to ensure that our monitors stay safe, not only being aware of their situations, that they are also actually ensuring that they are taking their security priority. So they're ensuring that when they're in the field, they're looking around, they wear the situation, you know, they know what to do in case of emergencies. You know, we work in countries where the political environment is volatile. You know, at any moment you can have protests, you know, so definitely our.
In terms of protecting security. And we also do trainings for our teams on the ground to ensure that there are measures in place to, you know, to ensure that, yeah. That we definitely don't leave them alone. It's important for them to know that they're not alone and that there is protection, you know, or no one want to go to work. I certainly wouldn't. So, yes, that's. That's my take on it. Thank you.
[00:34:36] Speaker B: Yeah. Bernie, what else would you add to that?
[00:34:39] Speaker C: I think just to say, I mean, Julius had the nail on the head multiple times, but we're also not necessarily going to be monitoring in all places, in all countries. There are some countries that we, as much as there may be evidence of human trafficking prevalence, there's no ways that we would put our own loved ones in that situation of our baseline for what we would. Where we would consider monitoring is if it were safe enough to begin with. And as Julia, not all of it is around the disruption of human trafficking syndicates, but also can just be the nature of the community or the country that a station is potentially based. And where there are just specific.
I think there's a handful of really practical things that monitors can do to keep themselves sort of aware of what's around them and to know when to call for help, when to go to a safe place, for sure. But I think all of that sort of is combined in one, being aware of your situation and two, being prepared and knowing what you will do if I. These things happen. And between the police liaisons, the project managers, the security coordinators, as well as a handful of us at love Justice International, I think the reality is that security is everyone's responsibility, and everyone is expected to respond if there is an incident or a threat in the field.
It's kind of, you know, there is this inherent risk working in a space where you're disrupting organized time. You know, this isn't just helping people, but this is about disrupting organized time, where it thrives in areas where there is. Where there is corruption. And so small amounts and large amounts are being exchanged sort of amongst people that the monitors are working alongside a lot of the time in their own communities. And so that presents a risk, as well as the fact that I think, you know, there are just so many layers of different people, different groups of people being involved. You know, there's this whole long chain of people that are ultimately losing money if their operations are disrupted. And so it's kind of, in a sense, also unfair, because the better our monitoring teams are the more effective they are in certain locations, the more they're disrupting and the more risk that they're faced with, which is often a really hard thing to be met with. When you're doing your job really well, you're met with, like, a higher degree of risk.
So I think there's two positives in a way.
One, I think that the safety risk in sort of post exploitation is extraordinarily much higher than when you're in prevention. I think the monitors are generally coming into contact with more low level facilitators, complicit officials, and that does help to a degree. But at the same time, and I can't overstate it enough, is just how epic these monitors are. Like the fact that they wake up every morning and say, you know what? I'm gonna face injustice head on. I am going to be bold and courageous sort of in the face of suspects. I mean, without that kind of willingness to face up to the risk and the insecurity of this work, they still go out there and do this. It's just extraordinary, I think.
[00:38:39] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think it's worth noting, too, that there's probably certain ideals or conceptions that come with hearing the word human trafficking, particularly based on different Hollywood movies about it. And that's not, for the most part, the reality in the field on a day to day basis. Like, you might get a case where it's a little bit more sophisticated, but it's oftentimes a little bit lower level than that. I don't want to use the word casual, but it's just less intense, I think, in most circumstances. And that's kind of a myth, I would say, of just the human trafficking work is that it's all really highly organized, all syndicates, all high level traffickers involved at every step of the way, abductions and things like that, where we're not seeing as much of that in our work, I think, because it is very preventative at the same time. And so I think you hit the nail on the head right there, Bryony, when you were like, there is some element of working upstream a little bit that mitigates some, not all, certainly not all of the risk. And then the other thing I was going to mention, Julius, when you were talking, is just even monitoring in pairs. I think something as simple as that, where we don't have staff in the field by themselves, they're always in pairs of twos or threes, and together they're working with each other with those different intercepts and questioning different pv's and one can go grab the police. And just even the dynamics of how we do the monitoring practically sets our team up, I think, for success when it comes to mitigating as many risks as we can.
So I think we would be really, really cool to hear from you guys. About in particular is just a story of a successful intercept from the recent months. I'd love to hear maybe the one that sticks out or stands out to each of you the most. Bryony, if you want to go first, and then I'll have Julius share his.
[00:40:40] Speaker C: Sure. So a couple of weeks ago, I was in the Philippines, and we were setting up a new pilot project there and working in one of their airport terminals. And the team met this woman who was kind of convinced that she had been offered this international sort of business job, but all she had to do was go for one interview in Thailand, and then she was going to get a job in the Middle east. And it turned out that she had found this opportunity on TikTok, and that's how she had kind of met or approached the recruitment agent. But up until the point. Up until that point, she was telling us all of this. She really didn't have any sense of the risk of this sort of opportunity. Kind of. We definitely had some alarm bells ringing in our head, but at the same time, we really don't want to prevent people from pursuing an opportunity that sure may not be sort of the best opportunity ever, but for an opportunity to send money home to her family, we wanted to be careful, I think, in just sort of saying upfront point blank, that just because there were some alarm bells, that there was massive concern. But the tipping point, and I could see it in her face, was when we phoned the facilitator, the person that she had met on TikTok, we phoned them, and they just point blank denied that they knew her. And in that moment, I saw her sort of brain click, and she realized that a legitimate opportunity would not have had this kind of response from a potential suspect. Right? And so from that moment, you could see in herself, by us doing our due diligence and asking the questions that the team asked, she came to believe as well that this was an opportunity that was too good to be true. And actually, there were some really big red flags that she didn't want to risk her life for.
She had three children and a husband back home, and she was just hoping to go over and make some money and to bring it back, which is very, very common in the Philippines. They have programs set up for overseas sort of work. And, yeah, I think she just realized in that moment that there's no way she would risk the worst happening for her three kids back home. And as much as she's doing this for them, it just ultimately wasn't worth it for her anymore. So, yeah, I just, what I really liked, I think about that, was that she came to make that decision for herself. You know, I think Hannah, as you said earlier, like, we didn't force it. We didn't have to significantly convince her. Sometimes we do. We really have to put a lot of effort into convincing someone. It's true that those cases definitely happened, but in this case, she decided on her own. And I always think that that's better because she's less likely to be re victimized later because she's had this experience, because she agreed ultimately in the end and made that decision herself. I think that will empower her and put her to make.
Yeah. Those decisions, opportunities in the future.
[00:44:19] Speaker B: Wow.
Yeah. I can't imagine what it would be like to have had a job lined up and then to hear verbatim, I don't know this person, that the sobering, the soberness of that moment, I get, I get chills. Julius, what about you? What's the most successful kind of intercept story from recent months that you can think of that sticks out to you?
[00:44:44] Speaker D: Yes. I mean, there are many where to start from, but I can give you, I can do one better and even tell you news that came in about 2 hours ago where, you know, the monitors were in the field and they noticed two young boys walking with, you know, with someone, you know, he was holding both their hands. So the monitors, the two monitors talked to each other and said, does this look a bit suspicious to you? You know, and they said, they looked at each other and they said, you know what? Let's go talk to these young boys and this man who's traveling with them. And so he, they went, they approached, they introduced themselves as we said, and the man agreed. He said, oh, sure, you can, you know, you can talk to the victims. So one of the, you know, going back to one of the basics that Hannah talked about, you know, working in pairs, importance of working parents or working groups of three. One monitor was able to speak to the two young boys and the other one was able to speak to the suspect. Right. So as she's questioning the two young boys, saying, do you know this man? Do you know where you're going? They say, no. You know, he offered us jobs, so we're going with him. And then they asked, do you know where you're going? Do you know what you're going to do? And said, oh, no. But, you know, he told us that when we get there, we're going to be able to make money and, you know, feed the family at home, things like that.
So the other monitor, of course, is asking the St where you take children, do you know it's against the law to even employ children below the ages of 16?
And then he started to get agitated like most suspected traffickers do, because then they realize that this was not just a friendly stop, you know, something is, you know, it's about to go down, so to speak. So, so he started getting aggressive and started to, you know, make a bit of a scene and said, you know, these are not your children. Why do you care? You should mind your own business. And, you know, and proceeded to walk away with the two boys holding their hands very tightly and walking at a very fast speed. So one of our monitors, you know, we call them women of valor, you know, they're very tough. They don't give up. And so one of them ran to the police to get a police officer while the other one was walking fast paced behind the suspect to traffic because now he realized there's trouble. He's grabbing the two boys, you know, and the, you know, at the beginning of this podcast, you know, when I mentioned that, you know, if, you know, you're not breaking the law, why are you running? Why are you grabbing the two boys like that, you know, so he knew something was happening. He knew what he was doing was wrong, and so they had to, they began chasing. So there was a bit of a foot chase, you know, so he's grabbed the two boys. They're all running, you know, we had a monitor behind who's following them to make sure that he doesn't disappear with them. And then the other monitor went to run to police and grabbed two police officers. They rushed to the scene, they had to get on a motorcycle because the guy had already jumped on one. And, you know, they work in that community, so that community knows the work they do. And they said, you know, they went that way, you know, just take one of these motorcycles, you go and find them. So luckily enough, by the time the monitors found the two young boys, some police had already intercepted them. And, you know, and the police said, you know, these are, these, are these boys causing you trouble, you know, and said, no, no, no, they're not. They're victims. They're victims of, you know, an attempted trafficking. Where's the suspect and the police radioed another, you know, another section and said, you know, that man who ran away, he's actually, he's not a victim, he's a suspect. So chase him, find him and make sure he's arrested. All of that, of course, happened and the two young boys were questioned by police and the monitor stepped in, said, no, these are victims. These are not, they were not doing anything wrong. We need to protect them and ensure that their safety is top priority. So as we, as the team went with the two boys to the police station to make a statement, the police officer in charge, when they asked about the suspect that was just brought in, unfortunately, this does happen in our countries. He said, what suspected child? And one of our monitors really was heartbroken and said, absolutely not. You know full well. I mean, this man was running away with two children who are not his. And he's like, well, no, I was, I was not, I was not aware of this and I didn't see the victims.
So unfortunately, the suspected trafficker left.
But I just wanted to share this story because, I mean, it touches on everything talked about, right? Cooperation with police, cooperation with community, you know, situational awareness, working in groups, you know, victim after care. You know, we even stepped in and made sure, because one thing, unfortunately, one thing about our country is mob justice is alive and well. And so you could have easily had a situation.
Suspects are not victims. And, you know, and so I thought that was really touching of the monitors to step in and say, no, this is a victim, this is not the suspect.
Let's handle them with care. Let's, you know, take them to the station. So they were infatuated back home. Their families were sensitized. The father and mother were very ecstatic.
They didn't know they were duped by the respect to trafficker.
So they didn't realize what their two boys were going to be exploited and that's what was going to unfortunately happen. But we win some, we lose some, as we say. But the most important thing is that our victims are back home.
[00:51:14] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And to think about if our monitors had not been there at that particular moment, see those two boys from the very beginning, what would have happened? What would have happened if there was no interception in that particular case? I think that's really, really powerful to think about and that's the power of.
[00:51:34] Speaker C: The impact that we're having.
[00:51:36] Speaker B: Yeah. Those are two incredible, amazing stories. And I think it begs the question, Bryony, how much does this tangible impact cost? What is love justice's cost for intercept.
[00:51:49] Speaker C: Not that much, to be perfectly honest with you.
We just last month achieved a twelve month sort of rolling total of $148 per intercept, which has sort of, over the last couple of years, has just month on month decreased. And that's because of two things. One, we are obsessed with allocating our resources where there is maximum impact, and really rigorously asking ourselves where are we spending money and investing resources where there is less impact? And kind of having those conversations, making sure that every dollar is going towards potential victims and saving them ultimately from human trafficking. And the other aspect of that number just dramatically decreasing month per month, year on year, is just an obsession with maximizing and multiplying the impact. Right. As we spoke about the parable of the talent at the beginning of this podcast, to constantly be considering how we can continue to increase our impact in our numbers month on month on month. So it's kind of been a mix of those two factors. Constantly decreasing our unimpactful costs and increasing costs where it's creating impact, and then also constantly sharpening our strategies, trying new things. And truly, I think the recent breakthroughs have just been so incredibly linked with prayer and fasting, and the breakthrough and power that can come from that is extraordinary.
Julius actually works with the. Closely with the kenyan team. And I mean, they have this incredible story that I think the listeners would benefit far, far greater hearing it from the source than from me. But all that to say is that their staff member, who is the spiritual care coordinator for Kenya, he had a dream that 300 intercepts was what God wanted for them. And at that point, it was ridiculous. They were at sort of 50, 60 intercepts a month.
And just two months ago they got over 300 intercepts.
I think it's just a mixture of all of that. It's not one thing, it's not one person. It's just an incredible global team of people who are just constantly challenging themselves to do more, to invest more wisely, and to consistently, I think, adapt to changing trends and then just relying on the Lord to provide the breakthroughs, to do the miraculous, to create justice where there was none to begin with. I think it's beautiful to see these numbers of the cost for intercept increasing. And honestly, there is no other way to touch someone's life in such a tangible, dramatic way at the same cost of what transit monitoring can do. And that's. I'm not saying that out of pride. I'm not saying that because I've drunk the Kool Aid. I'm not like. I believe that to be true. Because of the data that we're given and that we have access to, which I think it's extraordinary if you think you can change not just the life, but as you said earlier in the session, Hannah, it's a family, right? Forever change. It's that those two young boys and their whole families and their futures, right? It's that young woman and with three kids and husband back home that now have a mother, and they wouldn't have if it weren't for that installation. So, yeah, $200, $150. We're aiming for $120. And in actual fact, a couple of months ago, we hit $118 per intercept for that month. And that's our goal. Our goal is to consistently be running lean operations, but consistently being challenge to multiply the impact of every single ballet in the work that we're doing.
[00:56:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. That's so good, Bryony. And I'm just reminded of that broken hearted anointing that propels us to do this work. And this idea that if it was your son or daughter, that was my five year old kid.
That was, you know, in the moments between freedom and slavery, I would have desperately wanted someone, you know, like, from love justice, to be able to intervene. Or what if that was my sister, the person that I loved the most? Like, what would I have done if it was the person that I loved the most? And that is some, like, the answer to that is just simply something. And so I think it begs the question for our community, our love justice community, our donors, our listeners, our support group. Like, how can you get involved this amazing, tangible, impactful work? And the first one, and it's obvious, is giving. Can you imagine giving $150 a month and that changing one person's life every month? That would be incredible. Or let's say that you can't give, but you have such a heart for this work, and you want everybody you know to know about it. You can host an awareness event. You could host a fundraising event. We've had so many people in this community do different creative ideas to generate awareness about love justice. Just last month, there was a Pilates class where people paid to participate in a Pilates class, and instead of paying the instructor, she gave of her time. And all the proceeds went to love justice. Or we had someone else do a dinner, hosted a dinner where you charged a fee to get into this really intimate, amazing backyard dinner setting. And all the proceeds went to love justice. And the topic of conversation at dinner was justice. Or we also had a clothing swap. I just heard of someone having a clothing swap where you donate x amount of clothes and you buy a dollar ten ticket into this clothing swap and all the proceeds went to love justice. I think the possibilities are endless when it comes to raising awareness, fundraising, and everyone brings such a unique element to that table. And so just encourage you to think about what could that look like for you.
The other one is joining our prayer emails. Like, I'm sure that we have some crazy prayer warriors out there in this space and we want you on our team. We want you praying for this work. As Bridey mentioned, so much of our breakthroughs have been tied to prayer and.
[00:58:57] Speaker C: Fasting and we just want to, we.
[00:58:59] Speaker B: Want you to join in that with us and be a partner with us in that way. The last two that I can think about in terms of just getting involved is volunteering. Have a number of volunteer positions on our website, from being a volunteer kind of data analyst to a volunteer data entry auditor.
You know, the, such niche, unique positions that it's crazy the type of people that we get submitting their applications of like, man, I'll give you just a quick testimony of a volunteer was like, I work in the auditing space and when I heard about human trafficking, I wanted to do something, but I didn't know how I, what I had could contribute to this space. And then I saw the auditing position on your website and it's like, is it like, how cool is God to do? Like, just wild to do that? I love, I love testimonies. I'm gonna have testimonies, I think, on the podcast later on in the season. But then the last one is joining staff. Joining our staff. Can't think of anything better. And it's one of the greatest joys that I have working with love justice.
A pleasure to get to spend the last hour with you. So thankful for you. We talk about monitors being on the front, front lines, but you guys are not a far cry away from that. And you know better than anyone how hard, how impactful, how much of a difference this work is making. And so we're just really thankful for you guys and the contributions that you were able to share today and, and just thankful for your time. So, yeah, it was really lovely getting to spend this time with you guys.
[01:00:33] Speaker C: Thank you so much.
[01:00:35] Speaker A: We are grateful for the generous support of the love justice community. Please consider joining our family of donors. Learn more at lovejustice Dot Ngo.
